Do photons, phonons and electrons have mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass of photons, phonons, and electrons, exploring concepts of rest mass, energy, and the behavior of these entities in different contexts. Participants engage in clarifying definitions, addressing misconceptions, and examining the implications of mass in various physical scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether photons, phonons, and electrons possess mass, particularly focusing on the concept of rest mass.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of the symbol ##m_e##, with some asserting it refers to electron rest mass.
  • Participants note that while electrons have rest mass, photons do not, as they cannot be at rest.
  • One participant raises the question of why a photon's rest mass cannot be measured when its speed is zero relative to an observer.
  • There is mention of phonons being related to lattice vibrations, with some uncertainty about their classification as fundamental particles.
  • Discussions include the behavior of light in different media, with some participants asserting that photons move slower in materials like glass or heavy water, while others challenge this view.
  • The concept of electromagnetic waves and their interaction with matter is debated, with some participants suggesting that viewing EM waves as particles is misleading.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the process of light absorption and emission in materials, with references to fluorescence and other related phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that electrons have rest mass while photons do not. However, there is disagreement and uncertainty surrounding the mass of phonons and the implications of light behavior in different media. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly regarding the interpretation of mass in various contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express confusion over the definitions and implications of mass, particularly in relation to photons and phonons. There are references to various sources and articles, but no consensus is reached on the interpretations presented.

  • #61
That's a very important point. As the analysis of the representation theory of the proper orthochronous Poincare group in the context of relativistic QFT reveals, the massless case is special, and the limit "##m \rightarrow 0##" is anything but trivial. That's also the mathematical reason for the fact that one must not think about photons as pointlike objects traveling with the speed of light wrt. any (inertial) reference frame.

The correct semiclassical point of view of the "photon", as usually treated in GR textbooks, is that this is in fact the eikonal approximation of Maxwellian electrodynamics. It describes the behaviour of wave vectors in the sense of geometric optics. The point-particle-photon picture can sometimes be a shortcut in deriving interesting things about em.-wave propagation (e.g., in the GR context the gravitational bending of light) but it must not be mistaken as a point-particle interpretation of photons. This was an erroneous point of view in the early days of the "old quantum theory", which is out of date for at least 97 years!
 
  • Informative
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