MHB Do you say this integration is doable?

  • Thread starter Thread starter clumps tim
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integration
Click For Summary
The integral presented, $$\nu = \int_{0}^{P(r)} \,\frac{dP}{P+\beta\rho(P)}$$, is deemed undefined due to a singularity at the lower limit when $\beta=0$. A suggestion is made to redefine the lower limit to a non-zero value, such as $P_0$, to avoid this issue. The integral cannot be solved symbolically, but an approximation method is proposed that simplifies the expression for practical engineering purposes. This approximation leads to a solvable form, resulting in $$\nu = \ln\left(\frac{P(r)}{P_0}\right) + \text{small correction}$$. The discussion emphasizes the importance of proper limits and approximation techniques in solving complex integrals.
clumps tim
Messages
38
Reaction score
0
Hi I have an integral to do

$$\nu =\int_{0}^{P(r)} \,\frac{dP}{P+\beta\rho(P)}$$

here I calculated

$$\rho = 0.003 P^{\frac{2}{4}}+ 0.002P^{\frac{2.5}{4}}+0.0019P^{\frac{3}{4}}$$

My question can this integral be solved anyhow?
I tried it in wolfram but it failed, can anyone give me the command in mathematica 10 to solve the integral part only ? I will later put the limits.

reagrds
 
Mathematics news on Phys.org
cooper607 said:
Hi I have an integral to do

$$\nu =\int_{0}^{P(r)} \,\frac{dP}{P+\beta\rho(P)}$$

here I calculated

$$\rho = 0.003 P^{\frac{2}{4}}+ 0.002P^{\frac{2.5}{4}}+0.0019P^{\frac{3}{4}}$$

My question can this integral be solved anyhow?
I tried it in wolfram but it failed, can anyone give me the command in mathematica 10 to solve the integral part only ? I will later put the limits.

reagrds

Hi cooper607! Welcome to MHB! :)

I'm afraid your integral is undefined.
If we pick $\beta=0$, we would get:
$$\nu = \int_0^{P(r)} \frac{dP}{P} = \ln({P(r)}) - \ln(0) = \infty$$
Perhaps the lower boundary should be for instance $P_0$?

Furthermore, I do not think your integral can be solved symbolically.

However, seeing that it appears to be an engineering approximation, it seems to me that is probably not really necessary.

What we can do is make for instance the following approximation:
\begin{aligned}\nu &=\int_{P_0}^{P(r)} \frac{dP}{P+\beta\rho(P)} \\
&= \int_{P_0}^{P(r)} \frac{1}{P} \cdot \frac{dP}{1+\frac{\beta\rho(P)}{P}} \\
&\approx \int_{P_0}^{P(r)} \frac{1}{P}\left(1-\frac{\beta\rho(P)}{P}\right)\, dP \\
&= \int_{P_0}^{P(r)} \left(\frac{1}{P}-\frac{\beta\rho(P)}{P^2}\right)\, dP \\
\end{aligned}
From here on integration is straight forward.
The result is of the form:
$$\nu = \ln\left(\frac{P(r)}{P_0}\right) + \text{small correction}$$
 
I have been insisting to my statistics students that for probabilities, the rule is the number of significant figures is the number of digits past the leading zeros or leading nines. For example to give 4 significant figures for a probability: 0.000001234 and 0.99999991234 are the correct number of decimal places. That way the complementary probability can also be given to the same significant figures ( 0.999998766 and 0.00000008766 respectively). More generally if you have a value that...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K