News Do you support legalisation of marijuana?

[camilus]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

 

[Evo]

So by that right drinking alcohol should be in that same boat for you. After all, it IS a drug that was legalized.. Correct? Am I right?

If not why do you differentiate between the two?

I have not differentiated between the two. I pointed out the good and bad of drinking alcohol. Mainly alcohol abuse, as alcohol in small amounts, can actually be beneficial. I suggest that you read my posts before making false claims of what I said.

Drinking alcohol is getting druged, but that is considered having normal fun, by pretty much all accounts.

Someone sipping a glass of wine over the period of an hour, might not even be enough to be felt. If they abuse it and drink to get drunk, then I am against it. I'm not for getting stoned or drunk. I think I've been pretty clear that I don't see a valid reason that anyone "needs" to do either.

Are we going to go around in circles now?

 

[Evo]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

What religious person here is against it for religious reasons?

Or did you just make this up?

 

[tchitt]

The point is that a lot of people think getting drunk is fun (it causes feelings of euphoria and happiness), and I think that's why most people drink. You said earlier you think most people drink alcohol to enjoy the taste but I don't see that... why is so much high proof liquor bought and sold in this country if that's the case?

I'm just curious as to why you're so "against" people getting intoxicated for fun. Not that it matters... it's not even on topic. There's just a difference in everyone's respective philosophies and we're at the point where it's time to agree to disagree.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

Equating getting drugged to having normal fun, I don't know what to say to that. That's even sadder.

Lol. Again with the 'normal' fun. That reminds me of the Dursley's from Harry Potter. I'd expect a physics board is a bad place to expect arguments based around expectations of normalcy to take hold.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

"This is happy harry hard-on saying eat your cereal with a fork... and do your homework in the dark"

 

[lisab]

maaaan this thread is incredible...

and its often that religious people criminalize marijuana, as if God somehow "****ed up" when he created pot. And yes, God indeed did create pot.

So their version of Genesis goes like this:

"And God said let there be light, and all was light."

"And then God said let there be pot, and society crashed and burned."

If you toke, don't post.

 

[ray b]

What religious person here is against it for religious reasons?

Or did you just make this up?

follow the money as D T said in water gate

in the Alaska vote on recrimalising pot
the churchies were the major cash supporters

the whole prohibition movement was church based and funded
most dry county's are/were in the bible belt

same ideals are behind the war on drugs
with the sex and rock&roll added in

 

[ray b]

If you toke, don't post.

more like if you get caught with pot in the south
you can't vote

 

[mgb_phys]

the whole prohibition movement was church based and funded
most dry county's are/were in the bible belt

This is the church of the carpenter guy with the beard?
The one who turned water into wine and hands out free wine every sunday ?

Have they perhaps been smoking something?

 

[maverick_starstrider]

I have to say that I get the impression that a lot of the anti-legalization posts so far have been coming from a place of stigma pure and simple. A lot of prejudice against recreational drugs and recreational drug users.

 

[camilus]

If you toke, don't post.

haha that's really constructive thanks.

And for Evo, I wasnt saying that the people post here against legalization are religious, although it's probably the majority.

I really don't care about 'legalization', I just care about de-criminalization. I did time for fkin pot, and I got to go back to jail soon because I pissed dirty on probation drug test. Yes, I am 'on the run' right now, ALL over a little bit of pot. Free country my ***, a person shouldn't be put in jail with the thieves and murderers because they smoked a little bit of pot. Give me a ticket, I could care less, but sending me to prison like I just committed a horrific crime that affected you is BS.

In all fairness, I say whatever, yeah its the law and blah blah blah. I wouldn't care if we were atleast consistent. I'll bust out my ethics notebook, where we make mince meat out of the U.S. war on drugs. Tobacco and alcohol related deaths number in the hundreds of thousands per year, when the hell has a little bit of weed killed anybody. And we're talking realistically here, not the 1960s commercials with little kids smoking pot and grabbing an axe and hacking their parents to pieces. Pathetic..

 

[camilus]

I have to say that I get the impression that a lot of the anti-legalization posts so far have been coming from a place of stigma pure and simple. A lot of prejudice against recreational drugs and recreational drug users.

absolutely correct.

A hundred years ago, I could walk into a pharmacy and buy a little heroin kit, complete with syringes and dope. ALL perfectly legal. Today, I smoke half a gram of ... I don't even got to finish that sentence.

 

[lisab]

haha that's really constructive thanks.

And for Evo, I wasnt saying that the people post here against legalization are religious, although it's probably the majority.

I really don't care about 'legalization', I just care about de-criminalization. I did time for fkin pot, and I got to go back to jail soon because I pissed dirty on probation drug test. Yes, I am 'on the run' right now, ALL over a little bit of pot. Free country my ***, a person shouldn't be put in jail with the thieves and murderers because they smoked a little bit of pot. Give me a ticket, I could care less, but sending me to prison like I just committed a horrific crime that affected you is BS.

In all fairness, I say whatever, yeah its the law and blah blah blah. I wouldn't care if we were atleast consistent. I'll bust out my ethics notebook, where we make mince meat out of the U.S. war on drugs. Tobacco and alcohol related deaths number in the hundreds of thousands per year, when the hell has a little bit of weed killed anybody. And we're talking realistically here, not the 1960s commercials with little kids smoking pot and grabbing an axe and hacking their parents to pieces. Pathetic..

True, the punishment and the "crime" are way out of proportion. Everyone knows that...yet some choose to partake, anyway. I don't get that...to me, it's just not worth it.

I wouldn't smoke it even if it were legal, so perhaps I'm biased against it.

 

[camilus]

more like if you get caught with pot in the south
you can't vote

hahahah I can testify to this..

Some of yall just need to get high and watch some Bill Hicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/E49Y48AUTG4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/E49Y48AUTG4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[camilus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/93jQI_6G5Cw&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/93jQI_6G5Cw&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Weed.. the undeniable truth.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

What exactly is a tobacco related crime?

 

[Kronos5253]

I have not differentiated between the two. I pointed out the good and bad of drinking alcohol. Mainly alcohol abuse, as alcohol in small amounts, can actually be beneficial. I suggest that you read my posts before making false claims of what I said.

Very true. That's my mistake.

Although mostly what I wanted to know was if you differentiate between someone drinking to get drunk and someone smoking marijuana to get high, and if you did what your view point was and how you differentiate between the two. But I did assume, and I apologize for that.

Someone sipping a glass of wine over the period of an hour, might not even be enough to be felt. If they abuse it and drink to get drunk, then I am against it. I'm not for getting stoned or drunk. I think I've been pretty clear that I don't see a valid reason that anyone "needs" to do either.

Are we going to go around in circles now?

True true.. Although may I point out that there are people who only take a hit or two of marijuana to help with feelings of nausea, or with their ADD/ADHD, or similar things like that? And likewise, as with alcohol, one or two hits generally isn't enough to be "felt" in the sense of what you feel when you're high, but it helps with those issues?

I want to avoid making the mistake of assuming again, so I'll ask: Do you have any bias' towards marijuana? And if so are you able to look at a thread like this (leaving out comments from people like camilus), and look at something like this objectively?

Honestly I'm just curious on what you have to say on the matter, because I know that you're intelligent. Although I guess more or less what I'm looking for in threads like this is an intelligent conversation that's fairly similar to a research paper weighing the pros and cons of it... And I don't know if that's even possible on a forum haha

 

[maverick_starstrider]

weed can also be a social lubricant just like alcohol.

 

[turbo]

In Maine, marijuana can be prescribed for the treatment of intractable pain, glaucoma, and other conditions that don't respond well to traditional treatments. When my brother-in-law was in the final throes of pancreatic cancer, Marinol did not help him. Smoking pot helped him. It eased his pain and helped him to keep enough of an appetite to eat and keep down food - not always possible when chemo-therapy is ravaging one's body with side-effects that can seem worse than the disease.

A local man has been persecuted for years by the DA for growing and supplying marijuana to a person for whom it was prescribed (entirely legal under Maine law) and who was recently exonerated by the top court in our state. The DA is undaunted, and is on a rampage against pot in all forms, legal or not.

 

[Santa1]

It eased his pain and helped him to keep enough of an appetite to eat and keep down food - not always possible when chemo-therapy is ravaging one's body with side-effects that can seem worse than the disease.

Yep, if a person is undergoing chemo-therapy or is dangerously underweight (and not suffering from anorexia or the likes) pot may help a lot.

 

[camilus]

thread like this (leaving out comments from people like camilus), ...

[should be..]

Very true. That's my mistake.

Yes I smoke weed, and I've been smoking herb for like 8 years god. And I haven't failed to do exceptional in all my classes, which happen TO be the passions of my life, which are mathematics, physics and science, and philosophy.

Besides, all the BS I had to go though, it isn't the marijuana that's holded me back. In fact, I've done most of my best work almost immediately after getting high. These BS laws on mj is what holded me back, just read this next excerpt from another thread in the Academic Advice forum:

You're pretty much where I am at, just that I fked up my life, I am probably going to jail again... for smoking weed... its a fking shame because everyone who knows me knows that I have a gift for mathematics and science. In one year in High school, when I finally got my life on track, I skipped college algebra, trig, and precalc, and went straight to AP calc 1 and 2, as well as simultaniously taking physics I and II, and AP Physics the next semester. Aced every single one.

And its a shame because I had already began doing independent research on my own. I'd go to the Chair of the mathematics department, to speak to the most knowledgeable mathematician in the school, to ask em a simple question in complex analysis. I asked, how can I raise a number to a complex power, like what is 2^i?

The math department was stumped. two days later, not only did I know how to do such calculations, I independently derived the general case for any x raised to the power of a+bi. The math department was shocked.

In all my calculus classes, I was the only spanish kid, quiet, didnt have no friends, because all of the other kids were a bunch of racist white rich kids. They didnt like me much because I was the only kid in class for 2 straight semesters that got over 100% (like 104% final grade.) The next grade closest to mine was like a 94-95.

and what made these rich white kids hate on me, was that I'd openly talk about how I was a hardcore pothead, and I would get over 100% on an exam that I took literally blitzed out of my mind. and I didnt study at all, I smoked herb all day, while these kids studied their a$$es off and I still blew them out of the water. I am a pothead minority in my high school who knew more advanced mathematics than the whole department. Anyways, I went from a straight F student in 9th and 10th grade, got expelled from all Miami-Dade county public schools for getting arrested OUTSIDE of school on a fkin saturday night, and the beeotch a$$ cops went and snitched on me to the school.

Well sorry for getting off topic.

Out of the courses you listed, I suggest, analysis, complex analysis (Im a big fan of analysis, I have a like a natural talent for it), and topology, which I am DYING to take.

It depends also, how hardcore of the pure mathematician you are. I'm a Platonist along the lines of G.H. Hardy, I don't care about "applications", I love number theory for the simple fact that its the most beautiful, original creation of the human spirit, like Whitehead said.

My Holy Bible is basically 'THE BOOK' of which Paul Erdos spoke about. A book that God always carried arround him containing all the most beautiful, creative, and interesting and deep theorems.

Thats my holy grail, if hypothetically* that BOOK existed, I would honestly trade my life for a full understanding of all the most beautiful, creative, original, interesting and deep theorems ever. These are my life's passions, without them, my life would be almost meaningless... I would still have my family though, that the other most important aspect of my life.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=2275790#post2275790

 

[camilus]

SO yeah, these last two posts have been in defense of marijuana affecting or holding me back. What I've been saying all along is that these laws implemented by the government are a joke, they're inconsistent, contradictory, 90% of all there shi!t is mostly BS, they Lost the "war on drugs', those regulations made the situation even worse.

And I can go on here forever, and its all these BS unfair laws, that I should go to jail for possessing a few grams of marijuana for personal use. Most of you guys haven't had to go through what I did, and I am not hoping for sympathy here. I just want yall to understand. Read my the last thread about my potential, and how I turned my life around.

And now, I got to go back to jail. And how I said, most of you have never been in jails at crazy as I have. I live in Miami Florida, its hectic out here. I was brought up on the streets, but since I was little I showed promising signs of potential greatness. SO now I got to go back to jail, and that **** was horrible. I got locked up for a few months (OVER SOME MARIJUANA), and it was bad, all I had to do was think, and work on problems in number theory. Since I was there for a few months, I got cool with all my cell-mates, I taught simple algebras courses with business and profit potential applictaions to the inmates that wanted to learn. Right before I got locked up, Purdue University published a solution I derived. It was also solved by a bunch of other mathematicians, and they would be listed like this:

Joe Shmoe, Grad Student, (Univ. of Madrid)
Mary Jane, (Univ. in Israel), ..., and so on. I solved what there's graduate students in prestigious universities literally around the world, Spain, Ireland, Israel, Australia, and a few more.

It also published my name that I also solved the problem, but it said: Camilo Montoya (Miami, FL). lol

I speculated that this must of made these other guys in top univerities mad lol... a simple 20 year old "potsmoking punk" is doing the same math, completely independent. My friends have compared me to Will from Good Will Hunting (film).

I can give you a link to the published solution. Or you can find it in Purdue University's Department of Mathematics' website.

So in conclusion: I am mad about these unjust laws and BS criminal punishments for simple possesion for personal use. I proved I've done well, and its not the marijuana holding me back, its the godforsaken laws...

 

[Evo]

True true.. Although may I point out that there are people who only take a hit or two of marijuana to help with feelings of nausea, or with their ADD/ADHD, or similar things like that?

Yes, but that is such a tiny % of users, it's negligible and prescription drugs such as ativan seem to control nausea better. There are better drugs to control ADHD, since that seems to be a brain chemical imbalance. Alcohol can "help" too, but obviously prescribed medications that don't cloud the mind are better choices.

I want to avoid making the mistake of assuming again, so I'll ask: Do you have any bias' towards marijuana? And if so are you able to look at a thread like this (leaving out comments from people like camilus), and look at something like this objectively?

I have nothing against marijuana, as you have noticed I don't make stupid claims as to it having "evil consequences" such as addiction, leading to harder drugs, aggresive behavior, etc. I have been around it since the mid 60's. But I also don't see the need for it as another recreational drug. I'm stuck between thinking, what the hell, legalize it, control it, and tax the hell out of it, then listen to everyone whine about having it controlled and taxed, (because no one is going to be happy) and realizing how many more people would abuse it if they could get it legally. And I have seen many just go to "pot". <pun intended>

I wish I could post this video, it's so true "I was going to clean my room, but then I got high", it's so typical of the behavior I have seen. My younger daughter says a lot of kids she knows smoke pot and she's had to distance herself because they were dragging her down, wanting to smoke and then too tired to study. AND the girls that smoke have all gotten pregnant within the last two years, oops, forgotten that pill? Of course there are exceptions, there are those that will continue to push themselves, but kid themselves that they are doing as well as they could without smoking. There was a guy here that swore his drinking 8 ounces of hard liquor a night made him a better student.

I just think it's sad when someone is so concerned about how they're going to get wasted and then tries to make excuses for it. I've been around the block more than a few times and I've seen a lot. But people won't listen, they have to learn the hard way.

 

[Hepth]

My biggest issue is, how far in either direction should we go? Should all sensory-altering drugs be banned? (Caffeine, Alcohol, Marijuana, Heroin, Cocaine, etc.)

Should they all be allowed? Why or why not? Alcohol certainly is statically more likely to lead to death and or injury than Caffeine or Marijuana (a TREND rather than an eventuality).

Why are we OK with our government letting our rights be influenced by corporations and lobbyists?As for my opinion:
If it has a direct health benefit, it should be prescription based at the bare minimum.

And as much as I love a good beer, gun-to-my-head decision would be to say we DO NOT have a RIGHT to be able to drink alcohol in our homes or in public, when it generally leads to abuse of some way or another.
BUT REMEMBER, just because we don't have a RIGHT doesn't mean we can't have it. It just means it should be left up to the states to vote on it.

 

[lisab]

So in conclusion: I am mad about these unjust laws and BS criminal punishments for simple possesion for personal use. I proved I've done well, and its not the marijuana holding me back, its the godforsaken laws...

So, is the high worth it all? Really?

I don't think it's the laws holding you back; it's your resistance to following those laws.

 

[Hepth]

So in conclusion: I am mad about these unjust laws and BS criminal punishments for simple possesion for personal use. I proved I've done well, and its not the marijuana holding me back, its the godforsaken laws...

Sorry, but really I have no sympathy for anyone who breaks the law.
Even if I thought it should be legalized (which i do lean to, with restrictions) it doesn't mean that you should violate the current law. That's just academic. I do agree the punishment is RIDICULOUSLY strict and inconsistent, and there I feel for ya. But, you won't see me frequently doing something that is illegal and has a huge punishment until its legalized. Why take the risk? It wasn't life or death. It was mere convenience and entertainment. Learn your lesson and move on.

 

[camilus]

So then why not criminalize all harmful drugs, starting alcohol and tobacco, which do more harm and kill more people than heroin, crack, and cocaine combined.

Have you guys ever heard of laws being unjust? that's exactly what I am saying. How can I philosophically "commit a crime" that I deserve to go to jail for months, like I was locked up with niggas with assaults with a deadly weapon, dealing stolen property, attempted murder, etc...(which are just laws) by breaking and unjust law?

 

[Hepth]

So then why not criminalize all harmful drugs, starting alcohol and tobacco, which do more harm and kill more people than heroin, crack, and cocaine combined.

But do they only harm and kill more people because they're legal? If heroin was completely legal, don't you think overdose fatalities would go up drastically?Again, I'm with you. Its a tough subject because as it is now, there's a smooth gradient of the dangerousness of drugs. From aspirin to acid. And what we have legalized now is sort of a random selection (nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, ibuprofen, etc) with a range of social impacts and dangers to a persons immediate and future health, and to their danger to others.

I feel its backward too, but its not productive to just criticize practices without even attempting to come up with a solution or trying to put said solution into action.

Have you guys ever heard of laws being unjust? that's exactly what I am saying. How can I philosophically "commit a crime" that I deserve to go to jail for months, like I was locked up with niggas with assaults with a deadly weapon, dealing stolen property, attempted murder, etc...(which are just laws) by breaking and unjust law?

I'm sorry, but your definition of "Just/unjust" is completely subjective and a matter of opinion, that is completely biased due to your situation. A person who's child was killed by a drunk driver is more likely to feel that 90 days in jail for drunk driver is "just" than that person driving.

Again, just because you don't FEEL a law is just does NOT give you the right to violate it. If it did you'd see me coasting through red lights when no one was coming at 4am, going 90+mph on highways, lighting off air-borne fireworks year round. BUT ITS ILLEGAL, so I choose not to, even though I feel the law is misguided in those regards.

 

[Civilized]

So, is the high worth it all? Really?

Some kind of nasty stupor, such as that induced by alcohol, or some foul death-tasting tobacco smoke, would not be worth breaking the law for. But for many people Cannabis is nt treated like a drug, it's a gateway to reflective and spiritual experiences.

I don't think it's the laws holding you back; it's your resistance to following those laws.

Following unjust laws is unjust. The argument "because it's the law..." makes me sick. If the law is unjust, then it is our duty to protest it. Anything less would be failing to take moral responsibility, ignoring the big picture in favor of giving up and doing nothing (head in sand).

Meanwhile, people like camilus are the ones who have to suffer because Americans have refused to do the responsible thing. If we are going to arrest thousands of people, then at the least we need to do due dilligence and fund more studies of cannabis to be sure that the 'crime' fits the punishment. Most of us give these issues only a passing thought, but people in camilus' position have had to face it up close and personal in a life changing way. Does anyone get my point that it is flat out irresponsible to sentence people to hard time in prison for cannabis possession without having thoroughly evaluated the scientific reasons and the social impact of doing o?