Do You Use The F Word In Real Life?

[skeptic2]

I do not use the word as an expletive but I have no problem using the word in a discussion about the word, even with my preteen daughter.

In my speech class at a conservative religious college I gave a speech about legalizing the language's most offensive word. I advocated eliminating its use as an expletive and restricting the use of the word to a sexual context. The students and teacher didn't criticize my delivery nor the structure of the speech but almost without exception they criticized the subject of the speech. The only exception I remember was a conservative seminary student from Canada who gave me an A. The average of the grades given by the class was a D.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In my speech class at a conservative religious college I gave a speech about legalizing the language's most offensive word. I advocated eliminating its use as an expletive and restricting the use of the word to a sexual context. The students and teacher didn't criticize my delivery nor the structure of the speech but almost without exception they criticized the subject of the speech. The only exception I remember was a conservative seminary student from Canada who gave me an A. The average of the grades given by the class was a D.

This strikes me as a controversial proposal for a student to make at a religious college. What were you up to?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Profanity does not bother me at all. Robert Anton Wilson illustrated the issue quite well in the Schrödinger's Cat Trilogy. He took the story to an alternate reality where people used different dirty words. He changed them to the names of some supreme court justices and politicians who had been rather outspoken regarding "obscenity". He then proceeded to describe some rather tawdry sex acts between a man and an underage male prostitute, among other things, using these different words. It was rather amusing.

What does it illustrate to you, specifically?

To me profanities are not interchangable. If you make a list of all the slang terms for the male member, for example, each has its own individual connotation. Foreign languages, too, of course, have prohibited profanities, but the more you become familiar with how they're used the more you are likely to realize they don't translate well to our constellation of terms. There's a commonly used German word for the sex act, for example, that is prohibited in polite conversation, but the range of emotional response it evokes just doesn't seem the same to me as the F word.

The story you mention wouldn't illustrate to me that the terms are interchangable, if that's what you meant, just that there's probably an infinity of ways to extend the vocabulary.

 

[skeptic2]

This strikes me as a controversial proposal for a student to make at a religious college. What were you up to?

I naively believed I would be graded on my ability (or lack) of speaking regardless of the subject matter and just wanted to ruffle a few feathers. I did not use the F word in the speech.

 

[skeptic2]

My wife, who is Mexican, and I became friends with a couple from Argentina. As we were conversing in Spanish every so often they would break out laughing at something we had said, claiming we had said something very obscene. The words, which in Mexico have no obscene connotations, were Spanish for cap, bird and seashell. On the other hand the wife's pet name for her husband would have been considered obscene in Mexico.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I naively believed I would be graded on my ability (or lack of) of speaking regardless of the subject matter and just wanted to ruffle a few feathers. I did not use the F word in the speech.

Yeah, it seemed to me there'd be no way to pull a subject like that off in those circumstances unless you profoundly believed your position. In other words, your speaking ability is often directly tied to how much you believe what you're saying. The desire to ruffle feathers is probably not a sufficient motivation to dig in and make a really good case.

I went to a Catholic prep school my freshman and sophomore year in high school, and we were given a lecture about the F word, once, by a teacher who maintained it was originally an agricultural term and referred to the act of poking a hole in the soil and dropping a seed into it. He said other things, too, all aimed at defusing the word's impact in our minds.

 

[Proton Soup]

I naively believed I would be graded on my ability (or lack of) of speaking regardless of the subject matter and just wanted to ruffle a few feathers. I did not use the F word in the speech.

to me, getting upset over the word represents a sort of false piety. people can pat themselves on the back for their actions, avoiding the sin of this vulgarity. but by allowing themselves to get upset over it, they are giving power to that word, and to the people using it. remove the sting and you remove the power.

 

[zoobyshoe]

My wife, who is Mexican, and I became friends with a couple from Argentina. As we were conversing in Spanish every so often they would break out laughing at something we had said, claiming we had said something very obscene. The words, which in Mexico have no obscene connotations, were Spanish for cap, bird and seashell. On the other hand the wife's pet name for her husband would have been considered obscene in Mexico.

My high school Spanish teacher told us a slew of similar stories. He and his wife were Columbian, and every time they encountered people from another Spanish speaking country there was always some mixup over whether or not someone had said something obscene. The slang seems to stay very localized, regional. He thought it was pretty entertaining, and something we should be aware of.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

What does it illustrate to you, specifically?

To me profanities are not interchangable. If you make a list of all the slang terms for the male member, for example, each has its own individual connotation. Foreign languages, too, of course, have prohibited profanities, but the more you become familiar with how they're used the more you are likely to realize they don't translate well to our constellation of terms. There's a commonly used German word for the sex act, for example, that is prohibited in polite conversation, but the range of emotional response it evokes just doesn't seem the same to me as the F word.

The story you mention wouldn't illustrate to me that the terms are interchangable, if that's what you meant, just that there's probably an infinity of ways to extend the vocabulary.

It illustrated that "non obscene" words can easily be made "obscene" and that we are obviously programmed to view these words the way we do. And to what purpose exactly? Is there really any reason to get worked up over a word? to cringe or sneer? Is there really any benefit to being upset because someone simply said a particular word even though it was not directed at you or said in a fashion that one could rightly be upset about?
edit: I actually started a thread here in one of the subforums theorizing that people like it. They find it titillating that certain words are taboo and they receive what ever sort of emotional 'rush' from hearing or using them.

As far as "interchangeability" of the words I would say that they very easily can be. In the particular bit of the story I referred to the only change outs that I remember were "Brownmillers" as a replacement to the common "crude" term for breasts and "Rehnquist" as a replacement for the common particularly "crude" term for penis. Context and delivery made it quite clear just how "obscene" these terms were and their use alongside the common terms such as "breasts" made it clear that they were slang and not "polite language". I also thought that the sound of the particular words seemed to work well for the particular use they were put to.

Similarly I remember when I was a kid it was a common prank to attempt to insult people with "non dirty" words or even with words that would generally be considered complimentary. I remember it often working quite well. In fact in high school my sister fell prey to this. People called her "kung pao" and she was bothered by it. People were calling her "kung pao", usually with a smile and a wave as if they were being nice and just calling her by some nickname. She became irate and broke into tears on multiple occasions because of this. When I asked around to find out the story of why she was being called "kung pao" nobody, not even the people who used it, had any clue. I finally found the person that started it and he said that it was just a word that pop out and he had no particular reason for choosing it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

It illustrated that "non obscene" words can easily be made "obscene"...

O.K. I follow this.

and that we are obviously programmed to view these words the way we do. And to what purpose exactly? Is there really any reason to get worked up over a word? to cringe or sneer? Is there really any benefit to being upset because someone simply said a particular word even though it was not directed at you or said in a fashion that one could rightly be upset about?
edit: I actually started a thread here in one of the subforums theorizing that people like it. They find it titillating that certain words are taboo and they receive what ever sort of emotional 'rush' from hearing or using them.

I think you half answered your own question. The reason a lot of this language is inappropriate is because it inserts sexual thinking, or a blunt angry mood, into situations where it's a powerful distraction:

A girl in a bikini is like having a loaded pistol on your coffee table - There's nothing wrong with them, but it's hard to stop thinking about it

Whether the F word is used as a gun (angry expletive) or an out-of-place girl in a bikini (reference to the sex act), it represents a powerful, gratuitous distraction.

As far as "interchangeability" of the words I would say that they very easily can be. In the particular bit of the story I referred to the only change outs that I remember were "Brownmillers" as a replacement to the common "crude" term for breasts and "Rehnquist" as a replacement for the common particularly "crude" term for penis. Context and delivery made it quite clear just how "obscene" these terms were and their use alongside the common terms such as "breasts" made it clear that they were slang and not "polite language". I also thought that the sound of the particular words seemed to work well for the particular use they were put to.

We're talking about two different kinds of interchangability. I was talking about the ineffable concept of Le Mote Juste, that word which, when found, turns out to be exactly the right word for your purposes. "Cock" and "dick" may seem interchangable to you, but to me they have different connotations that would have to be sorted out if, for example, I were writing a screenplay and deciding which a particular character should use in a particular situation. "Pecker" is, obviously quite different than the other two. It's more comical and lighter sounding. "Tool" has its own connotations and you could get away with it in more situations (depending), and "weiner" might make a stodgy old church lady suppress a giggle when she would never tolerate "cock". There's many more to consider, but you probably get the point about them not being interchangable.

Similarly I remember when I was a kid it was a common prank to attempt to insult people with "non dirty" words or even with words that would generally be considered complimentary. I remember it often working quite well. In fact in high school my sister fell prey to this. People called her "kung pao" and she was bothered by it. People were calling her "kung pao", usually with a smile and a wave as if they were being nice and just calling her by some nickname. She became irate and broke into tears on multiple occasions because of this. When I asked around to find out the story of why she was being called "kung pao" nobody, not even the people who used it, had any clue. I finally found the person that started it and he said that it was just a word that pop out and he had no particular reason for choosing it.

I guy I worked with in a movie theater (a casual place, no uniforms for the employees or corporate trappings) used to experiment with saying "You have a nice nezbit," to hot women who came in. Some would smile and say thanks, others would be troubled.

 

[TheMadMonk]

I have been known to utter it from time to time. I absolutely abhor the use of the c word though.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I think you half answered your own question. The reason a lot of this language is inappropriate is because it inserts sexual thinking, or a blunt angry mood, into situations where it's a powerful distraction:

But the issue is why? Does it necessarily? Or does it because we want or expect it to?

We're talking about two different kinds of interchangability. I was talking about the ineffable concept of Le Mote Juste, that word which, when found, turns out to be exactly the right word for your purposes. "Cock" and "dick" may seem interchangable to you, but to me they have different connotations that would have to be sorted out if, for example, I were writing a screenplay and deciding which a particular character should use in a particular situation. "Pecker" is, obviously quite different than the other two. It's more comical and lighter sounding. "Tool" has its own connotations and you could get away with it in more situations (depending), and "weiner" might make a stodgy old church lady suppress a giggle when she would never tolerate "cock". There's many more to consider, but you probably get the point about them not being interchangable.

I see. I am wondering now if part of the particular mood set by a word may be the literal sound of it. The hard 'K' sound seems to perhaps come off as aggressive.

 

[zoobyshoe]

But the issue is why? Does it necessarily? Or does it because we want or expect it to?

Yes, the person using it usually wants or expects it to. When I say the word "horse" I want and expect you to envision a particular mammal.

I see. I am wondering now if part of the particular mood set by a word may be the literal sound of it. The hard 'K' sound seems to perhaps come off as aggressive.

This may help you work out your thoughts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

 

[qspeechc]

No, I don't use the f-word or any of its mates. However, I can't help but find it funny when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ramsay" gets going.

(The video has vulgar words, of course.)

 

[zoobyshoe]

No, I don't use the f-word or any of its mates. However, I can't help but find it funny when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ramsay" gets going.

(The video has vulgar words, of course.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am5Y5Pvrb4M

I think this fixes the video.

 

[zoobyshoe]

No, I don't use the f-word or any of its mates. However, I can't help but find it funny when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ramsay" gets going.

Kind of a cross between a drill seargent and Fat Bastard.