Does a Photon Have Spatial Dimensions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around whether a photon has spatial dimensions and whether two photons with different energies can occupy the same volume. Participants explore concepts related to quantum mechanics, wavefunctions, and the nature of energy in relation to space and time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the motion and location of a photon are described by its wavefunction, which implies a lack of defined spatial dimensions.
  • Others argue that two photons with different energies can overlap in the same volume, leading to a combined wavefunction.
  • There is a contention regarding the definition of energy density for a single photon, with some stating it cannot be defined while others propose measuring it indirectly through radiation intensity.
  • Some participants express confusion about the concept of a photon as a point particle, questioning how energy can occupy space and time.
  • There are discussions about the implications of a photon curving spacetime and whether this indicates that it occupies spacetime.
  • One participant emphasizes the distinction between classical and quantum perspectives, suggesting that discussions about photons should be framed within quantum field theory rather than classical physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether a photon has spatial dimensions or occupies space. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the nature of photons, energy density, and the relationship between energy and space.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the difficulty in reconciling quantum theory with classical concepts of spacetime, highlighting the complexities involved in discussing photons within the frameworks of special and general relativity.

  • #31
ZapperZ said:
All indecently by me? Hoot, how could you? I assure you that while I was typing that without wearing any pants, I was wearing a bright smile!

:smile:

Zz.
One of my more amusing typos! :smile: Damn this Google toolbar :rolleyes:
 
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  • #32
Your question is still unclear. Imagine that you had an unlimited budget, a very large laboratory, and a trained staff. What sort of experiments would you do to determine whether or not a photon "occupied space"?

The question is so vague and general in its current form that it's not really clear what you are interested in. I wouldn't know what sort of experiments you'd perform, nor what answers would convince you that the answer was that the photon did occupy space, or what answers would convince you otherwise.

Without this understanding of how you would reduce the question to experiment, I can't answer the question. Any answer would be highly misleading, esp. if you are using it to attempt to derive other results.

Science is supposed to be about questions that are ultimately testable. If you can't come up with a scenario that explicitly answers your questions through experiment, you are not doing science, but philosophy.

I suspect very much that the questions you have may be more related to quantum mechanics than relativity. But it's possible (because of the vagueness of the question) that I'm wrong. So I'll try and outline the relevant aspects relating to GR

1) GR is a classical theory, while photons are a quantum concept. We can certainly talk about whether or not light interacts via gravity though. The answer is basically yes. Light has energy and momentum. The "stress-energy" tensor that is the source of gravity in General relativity arises from energy and momentum, and how it is transported. Thus light contributes to gravity via its contributions to the stress-energy tensor.

That is about as much of an answer as you are going to get out of GR.

For a taste of the quantum questions (which should go in another forum, either philosophy or quantum mechanics) - suppose we have a light source that shines through two slits. We can experimentally see that it generates an interference pattern. We say that the light is due to waves, which interfere with each other. Suppose we make the light beam so weak that only one photon is ever in the apparatus at any given time. Does the light beam still generate an interference pattern.

The answer to this question is yes, and one philosophical interpretation of this result is that photons, regarded as particles, take multiple paths, and interfere with themselves.

Some people don't like this philosophical interpretation, which is in general fine, there are many. This particular philosophical interpretation is due to Feynman. People with different philosophies of QM often have a hard time communicating with each other, though if they both know what they are doing, they can both come up with the same answers to a well-posed experimental problem.
 
  • #33
I was just wondering...

Is it possible to a see a photon in an absolutely dark room with a very high speed camera?
 
  • #34
Why are you hijacking your own thread?

Obviously, since you don't have any follow-ups to this, your question has been answered and this issue is settled. So this thread is closed.

Zz.
 

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