Does a tree exist if no one is there to observe it?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the philosophical and quantum mechanical implications of observation, particularly in relation to the question of whether a tree exists if no one is present to observe it. Participants explore concepts such as wave function collapse, the role of observers, and the nature of reality in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Philosophical inquiry
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the existence of a tree is contingent upon observation, asking if wave functions collapse only in the presence of humans.
  • Others assert that the behavior of a quantum system remains unchanged regardless of human observation, suggesting that the tree's interactions with its environment could be considered forms of observation.
  • A participant introduces the concept of "principle of deferred measurement," explaining that quantum systems can be modeled with continuous operations and measurements that can be deferred until the end of an observation.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the Copenhagen interpretation and wave function collapse, suggesting that environmental decoherence may explain the appearance of collapse without it being a true phenomenon.
  • There are discussions about the implications of an isolated system and whether it can be said to exist if it has no effect on the outside world.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of observation and existence in quantum mechanics, with no consensus reached on the philosophical implications or the interpretation of quantum mechanics. Disagreements persist regarding the validity of wave function collapse and the Copenhagen interpretation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include varying interpretations of quantum mechanics, the ambiguity surrounding the concept of observation, and the unresolved nature of wave function collapse as it relates to environmental decoherence.

  • #121
DaveC426913 said:
This is completely false. Why would you say such a thing?

Are you saying that when the tree hits the ground, the air around the tree is not moved? Does it not propagate these movements in a spherical front radiating out from the tree at the speed of sound?

I am not at all saying that. If I did I would accept the notion of a mind-independent structured world.
 
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  • #122
This one isn't philosophy either. Dave is right, the riddle is a silly one that reduces to an argument over the definition of "sound". If a "sound" is a pressure wave, then yes, it exists whether anyone/thing hears it or not. If "sound" is what is detected by our ears, then it doesn't. The line of discussion about whether anything exists independent of the mind is just overzealous Matrix fandom.

Thread locked.
 

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