Does an electron have kinetic energy when attached to a proton?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether an electron possesses kinetic energy when it is bound to a proton, specifically within the context of a hydrogen atom. Participants explore the relationship between kinetic and potential energy in quantum mechanics, referencing concepts such as energy eigenvalues and the Virial theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that an electron does have kinetic energy when attached to a proton, as it is part of the energy dynamics of a hydrogen atom.
  • One participant references the Virial theorem to explain the relationship between potential and kinetic energy in bound systems, noting that for electrostatic interactions, the kinetic energy is related to the potential energy.
  • Energy eigenvalues for a hydrogen atom are discussed, with specific values provided for kinetic and potential energy at different energy levels.
  • A distinction is made regarding terminology, with some participants preferring "expectation value" over "expected value" in the context of quantum mechanics.
  • It is noted that whenever an electron is confined to a limited space, such as in atomic orbits, it possesses a nonzero expectation value of kinetic energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the terminology used in quantum mechanics and the interpretation of kinetic energy in the context of a bound electron. While some agree on the presence of kinetic energy, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of terminology and the nuances of energy values.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in terminology related to quantum mechanics, particularly regarding "expectation value" versus "expected value." There is also an emphasis on the conditions under which kinetic energy is considered, such as the electron's confinement in space.

Lolicon
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does an electron have kinetic energy when attached to a proton? if not, what is it transformed into?
 
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Lolicon said:
does an electron have kinetic energy when attached to a proton? if not, what is it transformed into?
A proton and electron bound together is called a hydrogen atom. The hydrogen atom has a set of possible energies, each of which is the sum of the kinetic energy and potential energy.
 
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There is a nice result called the Virial theorem which says that if the potential energy of interaction between two bound particles goes as ##V(r) = \lambda r^n##, then the potential and kinetic energies of that system are related via ##2 \langle T \rangle = n \langle V \rangle ##. For an electrostatic interaction that potential has ##n=-1##, so ##2\langle T \rangle = - \langle V \rangle##. Equivalently, the total energy is ##E = \langle T \rangle + \langle V \rangle = - \langle T \rangle = \langle V \rangle/2##.

The energy eigenvalues of a hydrogen atom look like$$E = \frac{-13.6 \text{eV}}{n^2}$$For instance at the ground state, ##n=1##, then ##E = -13.6 \text{eV}##, ##\langle V \rangle = -27.2 \text{eV}## and ##\langle T \rangle = 13.6 \text{eV}##. As you go up energy levels, the potential energy and total energy increase, whilst the kinetic energy decreases.
 
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etotheipi said:
The energy eigenvalues of a hydrogen atom look like$$E = \frac{-13.6 \text{eV}}{n^2}$$For instance at the ground state, ##n=1##, then ##E = -13.6 \text{eV}##, ##V = -27.2 \text{eV}## and ##T = 13.6 \text{eV}##. As you go up energy levels, the potential energy and total energy increase, whilst the kinetic energy decreases.

Those are, of course, the expected values of ##T## and ##V## for a QM system.
 
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PeroK said:
Those are, of course, the expected values of ##T## and ##V## for a QM system.

Thanks, give me two seconds and I'll put the langles and the rangles where they belong :wink:
 
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Possible nitpick about terminology: "expectation value" is the term that I've always seen in English-language QM textbooks, journal articles, etc., at least in the US.

To me, "expected value" has the connotation "It has a definite value, and this is what I expect it to be." Of course, that's not what we're talking about here.
 
Whenever an electron is moving in some limited space, as when orbiting an atom or put in a "box", it has a nonzero expectation value of kinetic energy.
 

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