Does anyone else overdo privacy and security?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of privacy and security, particularly in relation to personal measures taken to enhance them, such as using safes, security programs, and even constructing hidden features in homes. Participants explore the implications of these actions, questioning whether they are practical or indicative of paranoia.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a strong preference for privacy and security, stating that it allows for greater focus on other goals by eliminating the chance of violations.
  • Another participant questions the effectiveness of such extensive security measures, suggesting there may be a point of diminishing returns regarding time spent on security.
  • Some participants characterize the desire for extreme privacy measures as potentially paranoid, while others argue that paranoia can have its benefits in certain contexts.
  • There is a mention of the impracticality of hidden doors and tunnels, with one participant suggesting that basic security measures could suffice.
  • Several participants share anecdotes about their own experiences with security and privacy, illustrating differing attitudes towards risk and safety.
  • One participant suggests that if someone is overly concerned about being robbed, it might be time to consider relocating.
  • Another participant expresses a desire for programs that mask online locations to avoid targeted advertising.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of privacy in the modern world, including the prevalence of surveillance and the inevitability of being seen by cameras.
  • Some participants find the idea of hidden rooms and passages appealing for their novelty rather than for security purposes.
  • One participant notes that enhancing security can lead to a better understanding of potential threats, particularly in the context of computer security.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity or effectiveness of extreme privacy and security measures. There are competing views on whether such measures are practical, paranoid, or beneficial.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express concerns about the psychological impact of excessive security measures, suggesting that they may not alleviate anxiety as intended. There are also references to the limitations of physical security in the face of advanced technology and surveillance.

dangerbird
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i use safes locks plenty of ecurity programs and ways to mask my location online and am planing to make hidden doors tunnels and vaults in a house one day. i just like a lot of privacy and security not having to waste any focus on the mere possability of ppl violating my space at all. and this means more focus for other goals so it helps in more way than one. its not a paranoid thing really though its just to eliminate the .01% chance of something rare happening
 
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dangerbird said:
this means more focus for other goals so it helps in more way than one.
Does it? There is a point of diminishing return. How much time do you spend on your security? Are you actually freeing up time?

dangerbird said:
its not a paranoid thing really though its just to eliminate the .01% chance of something rare happening

By some definitions, that would be considered paranoia.A rough rule of thumb to spot a possible illness is whether it takes time away from other parts of one's normal, functioning life.
 
I would call that paranoid.
 
I have read that there are still a few old ICBM silos for sale.:rolleyes:
 
Mmmhm about the house thing it's actually not a bad idea if you have the time / effort to set it up yourself. I wouldn't contract that type of work out however because often times the people that do the work are the ones that will end up robbing you. <--- If this was the type of thought you had then you might be a bit paranoid :) Not that being paranoid is always a bad thing.

Actually I have the opposite problem like one time I was at a gas station in the inner city and some homeless looking type guy came up asking for some change and I was like sure and gave him like a 5. Then another guy came up and was like screaming at me "Don't do that you idiot you'll get yourself shot." I was like thinking that guy was going to shoot me honestly the other guy looked completely harmless. Anyhow moral of the story is being paranoid will stop random strangers from coming up to you and telling you your not paranoid enough.

Oh and honestly if your worried about someone robbing you it might be time to move.
Just saying :)
 
Containment said:
Oh and honestly if your worried about someone robbing you it might be time to move.
Just saying :)

Reminds me of the guy who heard that most accidents happen in the home, so he moved. :-p
 
Actually now that you said it I wouldn't mind a program that hides my internet locations as I hate getting adds for stuff I actually might buy.
 
dangerbird said:
i use safes locks plenty of ecurity programs and ways to mask my location online

I'd be more curious why you feel the need to do that? Then again, I just don't get the whole privacy thing. (I'll get slaughtered for this) If you do nothing illegal online and take adequate protection against viruses etc then why do you need such excessive privacy and then if you are doing something illegal online, you don't deserve privacy.

I will make one caveat to the above: the only reason for masking a location online would be if you live in a country who doesn't agree with what you do online - China and saying you hate the country for example. In which case, I could understand.
and am planing to make hidden doors tunnels and vaults in a house one day.
Excessive and paranoid. End of story. Just to correct Dave above, it isn't a case of possibly being paranoid, it's a textbook case.
i just like a lot of privacy and security not having to waste any focus on the mere possability of ppl violating my space at all.
A good set of doors and windows (perhaps even some sort of alarm system) will achieve this so much cheaper and simpler than doing the above. Just as effective.
and this means more focus for other goals so it helps in more way than one.
Really? So you focussing on it this much isn't taking time away from other things? Of course it does. What people fail to realize is that even once you build your tunnels, hidden doors and secret vaults, it doesn't relieve the paranoia and doesn't make you feel better. You just keep chasing the next idea to improve privacy. First .01% then .001% then .0001% etc etc etc.
[/QUOTE] its not a paranoid thing really though its just to eliminate the .01% chance of something rare happening[/QUOTE]
When the reality doesn't match what you perceive and you are focussed so much on your perception without just cause, it's paranoia.

1. If the government / external agency wanted to 'invade' your privacy, all that stuff above won't stop them. Money does amazing things - especially when it comes to the latest tech.
2. If I was in a house that was like an inverse Tardis (smaller on the inside than on the outside), I'd be more than suspicious and in fact would probably more inclined to want to know the contents and why it needs hiding so much.
 
Containment said:
Actually now that you said it I wouldn't mind a program that hides my internet locations as I hate getting adds for stuff I actually might buy.

They are based not only on location, but on what you actively do on the net. Hiding your location just means you get told a shop in a silly location sells what you've been looking for.
 
  • #10
This reminds me of the episode of House where they argued whether or not the guy with a hidden room full of guns and ammunition that he didn't tell his family about was really paranoid.
 
  • #11
OP,

I will keep this short, your PF Site ID speaks volumes. I hope your learn to lighten up and enjoy life.

Rhody...
 
  • #12
I say you're taking it a bit too far (though hidden doors in a house would be cool). Also it's somewhat pointless; even if you don't sign up to online networks, never give out personal information, use a Tor browser and live in a fortress you probably still get seen by several CCTV cameras a day on average and google has probably got a picture of your house for all to see. I'm glad I'm from the social networking generation, it means my expectation of privacy is quite low. In light of this possible coming age it seems like a good expectation to have:
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ones-to-fill-the-skies-after-law-shakeup.html
 
  • #13
I don't worry about it much at all. In terms of security, other than watching my surroundings if walking outside at night and basic things like not leaving my office door wide open when I'm not in it, I don't worry that much about it.

With privacy, generally keeping the blinds to my bedroom closed is all the privacy I really need. I'd rather focus on encouraging people to be non-judgemental about how other people live their lives.

On the other hand, I'd love to have a house with secret doors and tunnels. That would be super fun! If I lived in tornado alley, I might actually give it serious consideration to have a tornado shelter with a hidden door just for adding a fun factor to a practical addition to the house...of course that would be a room set up with a cozy napping spot and games and other things to keep one entertained during late night tornado warnings.
 
  • #14
I have an old Mosler fire-resistant safe for valuables and a Liberty safe for guns. Apart from that, there is precious little "security" around here apart from locks on the doors. Duke and I are here all day almost every day, and I have loaded guns tucked away near the front and rear entrances.

As Moonie noted, it might be cool to have hidden doors to secret rooms. I used to love that plot device in old movies. I'll bet the set-designers had lots of fun with that.
 
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  • #15
I, too, think hidden passages and rooms would be awesome...not for the security they would offer, but just for fun :biggrin:.
 
  • #16
If you're not paranoid, you're not secure. Security also has academic value, and when you beef up your security, mainly computer security, you learn about who is tracking you. If you ever work on a server, you'll learn about who and what is attacking you, and yes, you will be attacked. Also, I can understand how, for some people it could be a hobby, just like writing or carpentry.
 
  • #17
JaredJames said:
I'd be more curious why you feel the need to do that? Then again, I just don't get the whole privacy thing. (I'll get slaughtered for this) If you do nothing illegal online and take adequate protection against viruses etc then why do you need such excessive privacy and then if you are doing something illegal online, you don't deserve privacy.

I'll take the bait.

There are towns in Holland where everyone leaves there blinds open at night. If you close them, it's presumed that you are trying to hide something. In Canada, however, everyone closes their blinds.
 
  • #18
Moonbear said:
If I lived in tornado alley, I might actually give it serious consideration to have a tornado shelter with a hidden door
Actually, I have a secret compartment in my house behind a wall panel. It is absolutely undetectable unless someone puts a fist through the panel.

I keep emergency supplies there in case of an extended blackout. Flashlights, blankets, water, rations, etc. Enough for 4 people for about 4 days. (Not enough but better than nothing.)

Having been caught with my pants down in the Blackout of '03 I realized that even world-class mega-cities can fall victim to power outages.

Not that I'm really worried about our safety, but when 4 million people all decide they need to hoard supplies before the other 4 million people pillage them, it could get scary. Better to wait it out at home.
 
  • #19
dimensionless said:
I'll take the bait.

There are towns in Holland where everyone leaves there blinds open at night. If you close them, it's presumed that you are trying to hide something. In Canada, however, everyone closes their blinds.

I don't see what that has to do with what I said.

I asked why the OP wanted to do what he/she proposed and laid out why I couldn't fathom it. You responded telling me that people in Holland care more about what others think than having a bit of privacy and that people in Canada don't care what people think.

There's a big difference between utilising blinds / curtains for privacy to having secret parts to your house and major security initiatives. If you (collective, not you yourself) really feel that a secret room is preferable to people's perceptions of you because you've closed your blinds then I'm sorry, but you've truly gone over the top.
 
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  • #20
dimensionless said:
If you're not paranoid, you're not secure.

You can be the most paranoid person around and do nothing to alleviate it (just accept your belief that everyone is 'hacking' you every second of every day), which means you're paranoid and not secure. So that statement is out the window.
Security also has academic value, and when you beef up your security, mainly computer security, you learn about who is tracking you.

To implement adequate security is one thing, to get excessive is something else.
If you ever work on a server, you'll learn about who and what is attacking you, and yes, you will be attacked.

The moment you connect to the internet there's that risk and depending on what you're connecting to the net you should take appropriate steps to protect yourself. There is a clear line (at least for me) between reasonable protection and becoming paranoid.

An example, for the work servers we need fairly strong security to ensure confidential documents are kept secure and the system isn't taken down by malicious software. So there are adequate facilities in place to deal with that.
In the house, I keep my stuff on separate drives with restricted access so if anything does happen I can just wipe my computer and start again - with experience it has proven the quicker and simpler option to attempting to solve the problem (mainly with malicious software).

Both systems have enough protection / procedures to ensure I'm not being spied on by every Tom, Dick and Harry or that if there is a catastrophe it can be dealt with asap based on what is stored within them.

I completely accept a government or organisation with highly confidential data needing to take a paranoid view, but for the average Joe the threat doesn't equate to the level of belief that person has regarding who is trying to 'violate their privacy'.

Don't get me wrong, as security systems get better we should certainly implement them (better AV etc) and work on improving them, but they are more than capable of your every day needs.
Also, I can understand how, for some people it could be a hobby, just like writing or carpentry.

Yes, because people can become convinced of the 'threat' they believe exists and spend all their time focussing on it.

I'm just waiting for someone to say they've got a Faraday cage to prevent the evil government reading their minds...
 
  • #21
dangerbird said:
i use safes locks plenty of ecurity programs and ways to mask my location online and am planing to make hidden doors tunnels and vaults in a house one day. i just like a lot of privacy and security not having to waste any focus on the mere possability of ppl violating my space at all. and this means more focus for other goals so it helps in more way than one. its not a paranoid thing really though its just to eliminate the .01% chance of something rare happening
Interesting hobby.
 
  • #22
ThomasT said:
Interesting [STRIKE]hobby[/STRIKE] obsession.

Corrected that for you.
 
  • #23
dangerbird said:
i use safes locks plenty of ecurity programs and ways to mask my location online and am planing to make hidden doors tunnels and vaults in a house one day. i just like a lot of privacy and security not having to waste any focus on the mere possability of ppl violating my space at all. and this means more focus for other goals so it helps in more way than one. its not a paranoid thing really though its just to eliminate the .01% chance of something rare happening

If you really valued privacy and security that much you would never make a post like this on a public forum regardless of how many "security programs" you may be using...
 
  • #24
I'm just gona reply by saying it's not paranoia that drives me to want to eliminate what I realize is a small risk (<.001% or less). If it were paranoia then I'd think that the odds were like 10% but I realize the risk is very low. The goal is to eliminate any slight chance of anything happening so the thought of the possibility doesn't have to cross my mind ever.
 
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  • #25
dangerbird said:
I'm just gona reply by saying it's not paranoia that drives me to want to eliminate what I realize is a small risk (<.001% or less). If it were paranoia then I'd think that the odds were like 10% but I realize the risk is very low. The goal is to eliminate any slight chance of anything happening so the thought of the possibility doesn't have to cross my mind ever.
You will not succeed in this. You can minimise risk to the point where it is unreasonable to worry about it any more but you cannot eliminate it. Investing disproportionate time, energy, emotion and resources into negligible risks is at best a waste of time and at worse paranoia causing a detriment to other aspects of your life.
 
  • #26
DaveC426913 said:
Actually, I have a secret compartment in my house behind a wall panel. It is absolutely undetectable unless someone puts a fist through the panel.

I keep emergency supplies there in case of an extended blackout. Flashlights, blankets, water, rations, etc. Enough for 4 people for about 4 days. (Not enough but better than nothing.)

Having been caught with my pants down in the Blackout of '03 I realized that even world-class mega-cities can fall victim to power outages.

Not that I'm really worried about our safety, but when 4 million people all decide they need to hoard supplies before the other 4 million people pillage them, it could get scary. Better to wait it out at home.
its smart to plan ahead and prepare for possable scenarios i think. no matter what they are or how unlikely they are to happen i think
 
  • #27
dangerbird said:
its smart to plan ahead and prepare for possable scenarios i think. no matter what they are or how unlikely they are to happen i think
This is a detrimental mindset. If you truly believe this and pursue it you will end up living in a fortress house with decades long supplies of food, fuel, medicine etc with all contact over the internet and food delivered via airlock. You may think I'm going too far but there are people in the world who set themselves up like this because they judge the risk of going outside and getting hurt (by nature or people) to be unacceptable.

In life there are risks and you have to balance time spent preparing for risks with time spent taking risks. Get that balance wrong and you damage yourself either physically, emotionally, socially or financially.
dangerbird said:
actually youre incorrect I am going to study ways to enhance security measures even more online. Then implement enough security measures to elminate any risk at all because i want to
I have no problem with that but considering you previously mentioned modifying your house to include secret passages because you're so concerned about people violating your space I think my point is still valid.
 
  • #28
i find it strange that people here are telling me I am paranoid when I am not, after I've said i realize the odds of something happening to where i live are .01% and even less after all the security's enhanced.
 
  • #29
dangerbird said:
i find it strange that people here are telling me I am paranoid when I am not, after I've said i realize the odds of something happening to where i live are .01% and even less after all the security's enhanced.
Dangerbird please use proper capitalisation and punctuation when writing a post e.g.
dangerbird said:
I find it strange that people here are telling me I'm paranoid when I'm not, after I've said i realize the odds of something happening to where I live are .01% and even less after all the security's enhanced.
 
  • #30
Ryan_m_b said:
This is a detrimental mindset. If you truly believe this and pursue it you will end up living in a fortress house with decades long supplies of food, fuel, medicine etc with all contact over the internet and food delivered via airlock. You may think I'm going too far but there are people in the world who set themselves up like this because they judge the risk of going outside and getting hurt (by nature or people) to be unacceptable.

In life there are risks and you have to balance time spent preparing for risks with time spent taking risks. Get that balance wrong and you damage yourself either physically, emotionally, socially or financially.

I have no problem with that but considering you previously mentioned modifying your house to include secret passages because you're so concerned about people violating your space I think my point is still valid.
Well gee anyones free to think what they want
 

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