Does Centripetal Acceleration Increase Kinetic Energy in a Mass Spectrometer?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between centripetal acceleration and kinetic energy in the context of a mass spectrometer. Participants explore the effects of magnetic forces on the motion of charged particles, particularly focusing on whether centripetal acceleration contributes to an increase in kinetic energy or merely changes the direction of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that a particle in a mass spectrometer, after being accelerated by an electric field, will have a kinetic energy corresponding to the voltage applied, but questions whether centripetal acceleration increases kinetic energy.
  • Another participant asserts that the magnetic force does not change kinetic energy since it acts perpendicular to the velocity, although they mention that synchrotron radiation could lead to slight energy loss.
  • A participant acknowledges the possibility of energy loss but expresses confusion about the relationship between force, acceleration, and kinetic energy, suggesting that acceleration should lead to increased velocity and thus increased kinetic energy.
  • One participant clarifies the distinction between radial and longitudinal acceleration, explaining that radial acceleration changes the direction of velocity without changing its magnitude, which means kinetic energy remains constant.
  • A participant with experience in mass spectrometer design notes that there are various types of mass spectrometers and emphasizes the relevance of magnetic forces in the current discussion.
  • Another participant confirms that the magnetic force changes direction but not the magnitude of velocity, reiterating that initial and final kinetic energy are the same if energy losses are ignored.
  • A later reply emphasizes that acceleration can result in changes to velocity in different ways, not necessarily leading to an increase in speed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the magnetic force does not increase kinetic energy, but there is ongoing debate regarding the implications of acceleration and the potential for energy loss due to synchrotron radiation. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion assumes no energy losses, which may not reflect real-world scenarios. The distinction between types of acceleration and their effects on kinetic energy is also highlighted, but the nuances of these concepts remain under discussion.

sbuckstein
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I understand that in a mass spectrometer, a particle will first pass through an accelerometer to pick up speed (presumably starting from rest).
Let's say you have an electron starting from rest being passed through a difference of 1000V, it should have a kinetic energy of 1000eV right before it enters the mass spectrometer.
Once it is in the upper chamber, where there is no electric force to counteract the magnetic force, it will curve in circular motion. Does it acquire additional KE due to the centripetal acceleration? Or is it just a change of direction? Thanks
 
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The engineering answer is that its kinetic energy is not changed by the magnetic force (which acts perpendicular to its velocity at all times). But rigorously speaking the kinetic energy will be lessened slightly, owing to the synchrotron radiation emitted by any charged particle that accelerates, regardless of whether that acceleration is parallel to the velocity or perpendicular to it.
 
Yeah I figured there would be some sort of energy loss but this is a simple problem that assumes no losses anywhere. Thank you very much. Although I don't quite understand, if it is experiencing a force, it will experience acceleration, therefore increased velocity. Increased velocity should give it more KE because the mass is constant. No?
 
It's important to bear in mind that there are two kinds of acceleration: radial and longitudinal. Your thinking is correct for longitudinal acceleration, where the magnitude of the object's velocity is changing in time. In the case of radial acceleration, the velocity vector's direction changes in time, but its magnitude remains constant in time. This is typically the case of a particle that travels in a circle with constant speed (and KE). Somewhat amazingly, Newton's 2nd law, F=ma, applies to both types of acceleration. But the applied force does no work when it acts perpendicular to the object's velocity.
 
There are many type of mass spectrometers, it is a general term. I spent over 14 years designing control, pulsing, HV circuits for all different mass spectrometers! Only one I designed had magnetic lens which I think is what you refer to. Mostly we deflected the ions into circular path by electrostatic lens only.
 
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yungman, that is very interesting, but not relevant. I am clearly talking about a situation that DOES use magnetism.
GRDixon, thanks for your help. So let me get this straight, since v and B are orthogonal, the cross product is 90 degrees to both of them, giving rise to the circular motion. The magnetic force is changing the direction only, not the velocity? Therefore, the starting KE is the final KE (once again, ignoring the energy loss).
 
Correct. P.S. yungman: Thanks for the info. I must confess I thought that mass spectrometers all used magnetic lensing.
 
Thanks
 
sbuckstein said:
Although I don't quite understand, if it is experiencing a force, it will experience acceleration, therefore increased velocity.
Not necessarily. An acceleration simply means a change in the velocity. That could mean either an increase or decrease in velocity, or a change in the direction of the velocity.
 

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