Does CMBR Cooling Mirror Black Body Radiation Processes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the cooling processes of black body radiation, particularly in relation to the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (CMBR). Participants explore whether the wavelength distribution of radiation from a cooling black body at 3000K to a state of 2.7K is equivalent to that of a black body at 2.7K. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and potential experimental approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the wavelength distribution of radiation cooling from 3000K to 2.7K is identical to that of a 2.7K black body, proposing two cases for consideration.
  • Another participant presents a formula for black body radiation and discusses how redshift affects frequency and intensity, suggesting that temperature also scales with redshift.
  • A later post reiterates the scaling of frequency and temperature with redshift, emphasizing the implications for the relationship between the two cases under discussion.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the conjecture if space does not expand, questioning the experimental feasibility of simulating space expansion in a laboratory setting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the equivalence of the two cases proposed and whether the conjecture holds under the assumption of non-expanding space. There is no consensus on the validity of the conjecture or the experimental methods to test it.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the dependence on assumptions about space expansion and the challenges in simulating such conditions in laboratory experiments. The discussion remains open-ended regarding the implications of these assumptions.

nonspace
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Hello,
I am sorry. I apologize for my poor English.

[ Implicit assumption of CMBR? ]

It is not certain whether this kind of experiment has already been conducted. Still, it need be tested whether the wavelength distribution of 3000k radiation cooling down to 2.7K is completely identical to that of the radiation from a 2.7K black body.

Case-1
3000K black body -->cooling down black body -->2.7K black body --> 2.7K radiation
(thermal equilibrium state?) -------------------> (thermal equilibrium state?)

Case-2
3000K black body --> 3000K radiation --> cooling down radiation(2.7K)
(thermal equilibrium state?) ------------> (adiabatic expansion and redshifted?)

Can we completely trust that case-1 is equal to case-2?


For the experiment, 600K~1200K radiation needs cooling down to 300K or so, and the resulting values need be compared with those of radiation from the black body has a 300K.
 

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Last edited:
Space news on Phys.org
[tex]I(\nu,T)=\frac{2h\nu^3}{c^2}\frac{1}{e^{h\nu/(kT)}-1}[/tex]

A red-shift with factor z now changes ##\nu \to \frac{\nu}{z}## and ##I \to \frac{I}{z^3}## (as space is 3-dimensional) and we want to test if this can be explained with ##T \to \frac{T}{z}##

Well, simply look at the equation: If you divide ##\nu## and T by z, the expression in the exponential stays the same, and both the first fraction and I scale get divided by z^3.
 
mfb said:
[tex]I(\nu,T)=\frac{2h\nu^3}{c^2}\frac{1}{e^{h\nu/(kT)}-1}[/tex]

A red-shift with factor z now changes ##\nu \to \frac{\nu}{z}## and ##I \to \frac{I}{z^3}## (as space is 3-dimensional) and we want to test if this can be explained with ##T \to \frac{T}{z}##

Well, simply look at the equation: If you divide ##\nu## and T by z, the expression in the exponential stays the same, and both the first fraction and I scale get divided by z^3.
Thank you very much!
In the density equation of radiation,
[tex]{R^{3(1 + {w_{rad}})}}{u_{rad}} = {R^4}{u_{rad}} = {u_{rad,0}} = a{T_0}^4[/tex]
It is estimated that R^3 was formed due to the volume of the universe increase, and that the rest R^1 was generated because of photon's cosmological redshift(by expanding space). Thus, we can derive a formula, RT = T0.

For [tex]\frac{\nu }{T} \Rightarrow \frac{\nu }{T}[/tex] valid on, [tex]RT = {T_0}[/tex] should be valid.

If space does not expand, our conjecture(case-1 = case-2) is not valid?
Can we test it at the laboratory?(In above sentence, "Space" does not mean the universe.)
 
Last edited:
nonspace said:
If space does not expand, our conjecture(case-1 = case-2) is not valid?
Which case 1 and 2?

Can we test it at the laboratory?(In above sentence, "Space" does not mean the universe.)
How to simulate expansion of space in the lab? There are some tests where analogies to GR are made in other setups, but that does not give a real expansion of space.
 

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