Does Every Standard Deductive Apparatus Include Common Identity Axioms?

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter agapito
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Axioms Identity
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the inclusion of common identity axioms in standard deductive apparatuses, particularly in the context of Peter Smith's "Baby Arithmetic" and its treatment of equality. Participants explore whether reflexivity is treated as an axiom and how Leibniz's Law interacts with the proof of identity statements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if every standard deductive apparatus includes common identity axioms, specifically referring to the need to prove instances of 'tau = tau' in "Baby Arithmetic".
  • Another participant clarifies that theories with equality include axioms stating that equality is a congruence and notes that reflexivity is included in the logic used, although not explicitly as an axiom.
  • A different participant suggests that the logic must prove 'τ=τ' without using reflexivity as an axiom, while still employing Leibniz's Law.
  • One reply challenges the previous assertion, arguing that proving 'x=x' does not exclude it from being derived from an axiom, and suggests that reflexivity and Leibniz's Law serve different purposes in proofs.
  • Another participant expresses uncertainty about proving '0=0' using only Leibniz's Law and the six axiom schemata, suggesting that both reflexivity and Leibniz's Law are necessary for such proofs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of reflexivity and Leibniz's Law in proving identity statements, indicating that multiple competing views remain without consensus on the necessity of these axioms in the context discussed.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of derivation in Hilbert-style systems and the specific roles of axioms versus rules of inference in the proofs discussed.

agapito
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
I'm going through Peter Smith's book on Godel's Theorems. He mentions a simple formal theory ("Baby Arithmetic") whose logic needs to prove every instance of 'tau = tau'. Does every 'standard deductive apparatus' include the common identity axioms (e.g. 'x = x')?.

The axioms of "Baby Arithmetic" do not include them, so does this mean they are somewhat hidden in the undefined "standard propositional logic" used? He mentions, for instance, that the theory trivially proves '0 = 0'.

The application of Leibniz' Law is explicitly included, however.

Any help greatly appreciated. Agapito
 
Technology news on Phys.org
agapito said:
I'm going through Peter Smith's book on Godel's Theorems. He mentions a simple formal theory ("Baby Arithmetic") whose logic needs to prove every instance of 'tau = tau'. Does every 'standard deductive apparatus' include the common identity axioms (e.g. 'x = x')?
One can consider theories with equality and theories without equality. The first ones include the predicate symbol $=$ and axioms saying that equality is a congruence, i.e., an equivalence relation that is respected by all functions and predicates.

agapito said:
The axioms of "Baby Arithmetic" do not include them, so does this mean they are somewhat hidden in the undefined "standard propositional logic" used?
First, in dealing with arithmetic we are working with predicate, or first-order, logic and not propositional logic. Second, the author does include reflexivity of equality. He says, "our logic needs to prove every instance of $\tau = \tau$ , where $\tau$ is a term of our language $\mathcal{L}_B$. And we need a version of Leibniz’s Law". Reflexivity and Leibniz’s Law are treated similarly. These two axioms (or rules of inference; the author leaves the details unspecified because they are not important) are sufficient for proving that equality is a congruence.
 
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. As I read the text, our logic must prove 'τ=τ', that is we're not using reflexivity as an axiom. We are, however, using Leibniz' Law.

Is it possible therefore to prove '0=0' by only using LL and the 6 axiom schemata of the theory?

Thanks again for helping me out with this.
 
agapito said:
As I read the text, our logic must prove 'τ=τ', that is we're not using reflexivity as an axiom.
This conclusion is not warranted. One of possible definitions of a derivation (in Hilbert-style axiomatic systems) says: a derivation is a sequence of formulas where each formula is either an axiom or is obtained from two previous formulas by Modus Ponens. That is, axioms are allowed in derivations (of course), and there is no restriction that a derivation cannot end with an axiom. In other words, the fact that $x=x$ is proved does not mean that it is not proved directly by an axiom. In fact, $x=x$ is probably derived from the axiom $\forall x.\,x=x$ using a rule like quantifier elimination or some axiom serving a similar purpose.

agapito said:
Is it possible therefore to prove '0=0' by only using LL and the 6 axiom schemata of the theory?
I don't think so. Reflexivity $\forall x.\,x=x$ and Leibniz's law $\forall x.\,(P(x)\to\forall y\,(x=y\to P(y)))$ are in some sense the opposites of each other: reflexivity says how to prove equality, and LL says how to use it to prove other facts. In the same sense they are similar to pairs of axioms like
\begin{align}
&A\to B\to A\land B\\
&A\land B\to A
\end{align}
and
\begin{align}
&A\to A\lor B\\
&(A\to C)\to(B\to C)\to(A\lor B\to C)
\end{align}
that say how to prove and use conjunction and disjunction, respectively. So I believe both are necessary. But deriving symmetry and transitivity from reflexivity and LL is a nice exercise.
 
Thanks again for your help, it's very useful. I will attempt the exercise you mention. Agapito
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 64 ·
3
Replies
64
Views
2K
Replies
29
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 72 ·
3
Replies
72
Views
11K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
11K