Does having children make you happy?

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Recent discussions highlight findings from various studies indicating that parental satisfaction often declines after the birth of the first child, with happiness levels reportedly increasing only after children leave home. Research by Daniel Gilbert and others suggests that parents experience lower emotional well-being compared to their childless peers, with Robin Simon's studies reinforcing that no group of parents reported significantly higher happiness than those without children. The conversation also touches on the complexities of parenting, including the strain it can place on marriages and the differing experiences of individuals based on their circumstances, such as the number of children and personal support systems. Some participants express that while parenting can be rewarding, it also comes with significant responsibilities and challenges that can lead to stress and conflict. The debate includes perspectives on whether having children is a choice that enhances happiness or if it often leads to increased burdens and dissatisfaction. Ultimately, the discussion reflects a range of personal experiences and beliefs about the impact of parenthood on happiness and relationships.
  • #51
"Re: Does having children make you happy?"

Having MiH's children would make me happy.
Does that count?
 
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  • #52
Ivan Seeking said:
Gotta throw this one in because I believe it is so important: I think it is irresponsible, and, frankly, selfish, to have more than two children. In the final analysis, many of our [the world] biggest problems come back to population. If you really care about your future grandchidren, and their children, do them a favor and don't have too many kids.

Whether it be carbon dioxide emissions, waste, food, energy, or water demand, the most siginficant footprints that you will ever leave on this planet are your offspring.

Can I sell part of my quota? If a couple is allowed two, and I'm single and never have any, then I should be allowed at least one. I'll give mine to Chi-Meson, since him and his wife already have three and will do a better job of raising them than I would one of my own.

One day such a scenario may not be in jest. It looks preferrable to the alternative.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article570455.ece
 
  • #53
We must be careful with that 7% statistic. In fact, ceteris paribus, I'd be more willing to posit that that figure is due to the fact that couples with kids have been together for a longer time than couples without kids - the "spark" is gone.
 
  • #54
Ivan Seeking said:
As has been mentioned, I think it depends a lot on the individual. I always thought I wanted to have a large family. But after we got mariied, the years passed by, and eventually the decision was made for us. Even so, in the end, neither one of us really wanted to have kids. I understand that parenthood can be tremendously rewarding, so I don't mean to slight that aspect of having kids in the least. I understand that once you have them, they become your life. But, by not having kids, we have had life options that never would have been possible otherwise. We have been able to live where we want, mostly how we want, and doing what we want. It has allowed me to take risks that no responsible parent would be able to take. It has allowed me to pursue a dream without doing so at the expense of my family, as many people do. I am hard pressed to think of anything in my life that I would want to give up for the sake of having a family. In fact, when I think of how our lives might have been if we had kids, I can imagine being desperately unhappy. The thought of the hum drum of a "normal life" makes me want to run for the nearest cliff! There but for the grace of God, go I.

Kudos to you Ivan for having the forethought and consideration to not have children, when you knew it wasn't the right choice. I see countless child after child with horrible, irresponsible parents (some dancing in provactive dance competitions) who had children out of some sense of obligation. And they realize down the road that, as they suspected, they didn't want children, and then who suffers their mistake? the child who is stuck with a parent who doesn't truly want them, or who doesn't have the necessary character to provide a the love and support they deserve.

For the record I have a 16 year old little girl (yes, I said little), and I love her to death (much to her chagrin... ( teenagers :rolleyes: ) and no, I wouldn't trade her for the world or change anything if I could, but I'd be lying to say it wasn't a challenge. And not everyone wants to have that challenge in their lives, as it may interfere with other goals and aspirations...

I wish everyone thought through their choices and how they affect others the way you did...we'd have less chiildren with miserable childhoods and psychological issues
 
  • #55
Evo said:
today it is almost 7 billion and growing.

7 billions and growling if you ask me.
 
  • #56
Huckleberry said:
Can I sell part of my quota? If a couple is allowed two, and I'm single and never have any, then I should be allowed at least one. I'll give mine to Chi-Meson, since him and his wife already have three and will do a better job of raising them than I would one of my own.
It's "cap'n'trade," isn't it?

Tell you what, my heating fuel use is ridiculously low, about 45 Mbtu per year (that includes hot water). For New England, that's 10 to 30 Mbtu below average (depends on how you average). So, I'll trade you 15 Mbtu credit per year (so you can set your thermostat a degree or two higher) for 0.89 excess child credit. This will leave you with 0.11 ecc, which you might be able to use for a motorbike, or something.
 
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  • #57
Ivan Seeking said:
Gotta throw this one in because I believe it is so important: I think it is irresponsible, and, frankly, selfish, to have more than two children. In the final analysis, many of our [the world] biggest problems come back to population. If you really care about your future grandchidren, and their children, do them a favor and don't have too many kids.

Whether it be carbon dioxide emissions, waste, food, energy, or water demand, the most siginficant footprints that you will ever leave on this planet are your offspring.

If you're talking worldwide, I'd say you have a point. It would be good for the world's population to decrease.

Within a local region (espcecially the US and Europe), not so much.

However, I guess both could be balanced. The US and Europe don't need to increase their birth rate to keep a growing economy. They could move some of the people from the less developed countries into the more developed countries. They tend to work for less, as well, providing an added benefit.

Besides, you want your average to be about 2 per family. The only way to hit that is if some people have more than 2. The number of kids among me and my siblings: 4, 0, 3, 4*, 0, 1, 0. * - 2 marriages, so 4 kids among 3 parents. (And my siblings and I make 7 kids from 4 parents).
 
  • #58
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8682558.stm

Like many children in Ganne she has become used to eating bits of dried mud and silica, which she finds in the quarry. Tiny children chew on the mud simply because they are hungry - but it is making them ill.
 
  • #59
BobG said:
If you're talking worldwide, I'd say you have a point. It would be good for the world's population to decrease.

Within a local region (espcecially the US and Europe), not so much.

However, I guess both could be balanced. The US and Europe don't need to increase their birth rate to keep a growing economy. They could move some of the people from the less developed countries into the more developed countries. They tend to work for less, as well, providing an added benefit.

Besides, you want your average to be about 2 per family. The only way to hit that is if some people have more than 2. The number of kids among me and my siblings: 4, 0, 3, 4*, 0, 1, 0. * - 2 marriages, so 4 kids among 3 parents. (And my siblings and I make 7 kids from 4 parents).

I would favor immigration because you can test their knowledge/health before they can enter. But there would never be that kind of restriction for new kids :biggrin:
 
  • #60
Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.
 
  • #61
drankin said:
Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.
Yep, I'll sign on to that. Well said Drankin.
 
  • #62
drankin said:
Not having read all the responses to the post, just responding to the question.

No, having children is not the path to happiness. But, having children is a way to lead a life with a purpose beyond your own self interest. This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.
Yes, well stated.
 
  • #63
drankin said:
This can be a source of happiness (and a deep familiarity with every other emotion) to those who care more for their children than themselves. It can be source of misery for those who care more for themselves than they do their children.

Unless they're on a plane together and the oxygen masks drop down.
 
  • #64
Zantra said:
not everyone was cut out to be parent, and that's regardless of how "prepared" you are. Some people just don't have what it takes..

hapiness is a choice, like all things in life. you either choose to be happy with your circumstances or not. If you see misery, you will be misery. If you see joy, you will be joy.

There's a hallmark card for you

"sorry you got knocked up"

happiness (or lack thereof) may very well be in a significant % genetically determined.
 
  • #65
DaveC426913 said:
"Re: Does having children make you happy?"

Having MiH's children would make me happy.
Does that count?

Would this make your wife happy too ?
 
  • #66
Evo said:
It's a goal to work toward. World overpopulation is the reason I only had two children. I'm not kidding.
It's not so much cutting off at exactly two, but more to raise awareness of the serious problem of overpopulation. In 1850 the world population was only 1 billion, today it is almost 7 billion and growing.

The bad part is that educated humans like you only have 2 children. While in some parts of the world they reproduce like rabbits. Id rather have the world overpopulated with the children of educated man, than with the children of half -savages.
 
  • #67
DanP said:
happiness (or lack thereof) may very well be in a significant % genetically determined.

studies to support this...?

Assuming no psychological disorders (manic, etc) Someone with a good chemical balance should be able to achieve happiness if they so desire...
 
  • #68
DanP said:
Would this make your wife happy too ?

I didn't say my happiness would be long-lived. Or my life. :biggrin:


(P.S My instinct was to say Evo instread of MiH, because she's actually here in this thread. I wasn't sure if that would make it funnier or less funny.)
 
  • #69
Zantra said:
studies to support this...?

Assuming no psychological disorders (manic, etc) Someone with a good chemical balance should be able to achieve happiness if they so desire...

Yes, even for humans with no psychological disorders. Happiness has a significant genetic component. And so it's depression for that matter. It's something which is taught nowadays in most psych 101. It doesn't mean that hapiness is invariant, it mainly means that it's skewed toward a genetically set point. Some humans will be by default happier than others.

You can listen to this lecture from Prof Paul Bloom at Yale:

http://oyc.yale.edu/yale/psychology/introduction-to-psychology/content/sessions/lecture20.html

This is no link to research, but I don't have at hand any papers which led to this conclusion and unfortunately no time to dig them. But if you listen to the lecture you will be able to track down enough research on your own.
 
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  • #70
DanP said:
The bad part is that educated humans like you only have 2 children. While in some parts of the world they reproduce like rabbits. Id rather have the world overpopulated with the children of educated man, than with the children of half -savages.

And the more children you have, the harder it is to raise them the right way. So not only do you overpopulate the world by having so many children, those children will grow up and have a greater chance of just being a burden on society, along with the 10+ kids they'll most likely eventually have.
 
  • #71
leroyjenkens said:
And the more children you have, the harder it is to raise them the right way. So not only do you overpopulate the world by having so many children, those children will grow up and have a greater chance of just being a burden on society, along with the 10+ kids they'll most likely eventually have.

There is a overemphasizing in the role of parenting in the development of children. While counter-intuitive, developmental psychologists have arrived to the conclusion that parents only have a relatively reduced contribution to how the children will develop into an adult. The major contribution comes from the child's peers during the developmental process.

Again, it doesn't mean that parenting does not have any influence whatsoever, it means that is way less important than the society at large thinks to be. "Good parenting" is a catch phrase which is slowly very reduced in importance. The main impact coming with number of children is of economic nature.
 
  • #72
DanP said:
There is a overemphasizing in the role of parenting in the development of children. While counter-intuitive, developmental psychologists have arrived to the conclusion that parents only have a relatively reduced contribution to how the children will develop into an adult. The major contribution comes from the child's peers during the developmental process.

Again, it doesn't mean that parenting does not have any influence whatsoever, it means that is way less important than the society at large thinks to be. "Good parenting" is a catch phrase which is slowly very reduced in importance. The main impact coming with number of children is of economic nature.

Poor parents make the most children and also seem to make the worst parents. Children basically only see their parents for like the first four years of life, then control almost everything the child does for years after that, even who they associate with to some extent. I don't see how that could have little effect on how the child develops.
 
  • #73
DanP said:
There is a overemphasizing in the role of parenting in the development of children. While counter-intuitive, developmental psychologists have arrived to the conclusion that parents only have a relatively reduced contribution to how the children will develop into an adult. The major contribution comes from the child's peers during the developmental process. [..]
I think that is a mistaken summary. I'd say that absent strong and effective parenting, then childhood development is dominated by any number of external factors including peers, media, etc.
 
  • #74
leroyjenkens said:
Poor parents make the most children and also seem to make the worst parents. Children basically only see their parents for like the first four years of life, then control almost everything the child does for years after that, even who they associate with to some extent. I don't see how that could have little effect on how the child develops.


As I said, is counterintuitive, and something not many ppl are aware of. And even if they are made aware, they blank out and refuse to believe. I think it's normal, for generations the dogma of good parenting stood. They don't like this truth.

Nevertheless, research in developmental psychology indicates exactly the fact that parents has a relative minor role on how the children will turn out to be as an adult. And a truth doesn't have to be liked.
 
  • #75
mheslep said:
I think that is a mistaken summary. I'd say that absent strong and effective parenting, then childhood development is dominated by any number of external factors including peers, media, etc.

No, really no.
 
  • #76
DanP said:
As I said, is counterintuitive, and something not many ppl are aware of. And even if they are made aware, they blank out and refuse to believe. I think it's normal, for generations the dogma of good parenting stood. They don't like this truth.

Nevertheless, research in developmental psychology indicates exactly the fact that parents has a relative minor role on how the children will turn out to be as an adult. And a truth doesn't have to be liked.

If the parents are controlling which peers the child associates with, then the parents play more of a role than the research accounts for.
 
  • #77
leroyjenkens said:
If the parents are controlling which peers the child associates with, then the parents play more of a role than the research accounts for.

You'd be surprised :P
 
  • #78
Dan, you've got 4 posts worth of asserting a defending a claim, with nary a link or citation to the conclusions you speak of. This may all be covered in some kindergarten-level course in developmental psychology, but to us folks, it's still clearly not a trivial truth and therefore needs substantiation via reference.
 
  • #79
Gokul43201 said:
Dan, you've got 4 posts worth of asserting a defending a claim, with nary a link or citation to the conclusions you speak of. This may all be covered in some kindergarten-level course in developmental psychology, but to us folks, it's still clearly not a trivial truth and therefore needs substantiation via reference.

Sure, audit developmental psychology course. Probably even Psych 101 at any serious university will cover some of the material.

Ill refer you to the same course I did in an earlier thread (Dr. P. Bloom course at Yale) :

http://oyc.yale.edu/psychology/introduction-to-psychology

Please note that this is general discussion, and therefore I do not feel obliged to present further references.
 
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  • #80
Having kids is a blessing finding babysitters isn't :'(
 
  • #81
DanP said:
Please note that this is general discussion, and therefore I do not feel obliged to present further references.

That's a good point Dan. It is just general discussion. But it's important. You stated:

"While counter-intuitive, developmental psychologists have arrived to the conclusion that parents only have a relatively reduced contribution to how the children will develop into an adult. The major contribution comes from the child's peers during the developmental process."

I feel that's not the general consensus of developmental psychologist but rather is the view of only a minority. Why they would believe this I'd be interested in knowing as I believe parents have a major impact in their children's lives. I have a son and daughter. Am I wrong to believe I can have a significant impact on how they grow up? Also, they make me happy. :)

Here's a reference where the author states the majority of developmental scholars do believe parents affect their child's psychological growth.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/164/
 
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  • #82
Please note that this is general discussion, and therefore I do not feel obliged to present further references.
Why does it matter where on a forum a discussion takes place?
Can I say "aliens have nipples" and you have to believe me with no proof because I said it in the general discussion subforum?
 
  • #83
leroyjenkens said:
Why does it matter where on a forum a discussion takes place?
Can I say "aliens have nipples" and you have to believe me with no proof because I said it in the general discussion subforum?

Thats exactly the idea. I don't give a nickel if anyone believes or not. I don't ask you to believe me. I am not interested in convincing anyone. I stated an opinion and I presented in my last post a track wider than a motorway (Paul Bloom's course as a starting point). Follow it if you want to learn more about some interesting issues, and make your own mind about them.
 
  • #84
DanP said:
Sure, audit developmental psychology course. Probably even Psych 101 at any serious university will cover some of the material.

Ill refer you to the same course I did in an earlier thread (Dr. P. Bloom course at Yale) :

http://oyc.yale.edu/psychology/introduction-to-psychology
Why Bloom's Intro to Psych course in particular? Have you taken his class, or read his material, or are you asserting that most any Intro to Pysch course (versus a Developmental course) would support your claim? In the case of this course, do you mean that Lecture 5 "The Development of Thought" would support your assertion?
 
  • #85
jackmell said:
I feel that's not the general consensus of developmental psychologist but rather is the view of only a minority. Why they would believe this I'd be interested in knowing as I believe parents have a major impact in their children's lives. I have a son and daughter. Am I wrong to believe I can have a significant impact on how they grow up? Also, they make me happy. :)

Here's a reference where the author states the majority of developmental scholars do believe parents affect their child's psychological growth.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/104/1/S1/164/

Interesting but:

quoting from article linked above, "The Role of Parents in Children's Psychological Development ", section INDICATORS OF FAMILY RELEVANCE

persuasive source of support for the significance of family experience is found in follow-up studies of young children who suffered serious privation, usually the result of war, and were later adopted by nurturant families. Many of the orphans produced by World War II and the Korean conflict, who had extremely fragile bonds to any caretaker in their early years, appeared to develop well after adoption by loving foster parents.17,18 More recently, a group of children who had spent the first year in depriving orphanages in Romania were adopted by nurturant British parents. When they arrived in London, they were emaciated and psychologically retarded, as one would expect, given their harsh experience. However, when they were evaluated several years later, after adoption by middle-class parents, a majority, although not all, were similar in their intellectual profile to the average British child (Michael Rutter, personal communication, 1998).

IMO this, in the form it's written is void of any value whatsoever. It doesn't support either position.

For example, why did the children taken from my country's foster homes in UK ?
Due to family or due to a normal social life fit for their age ? i.e, the question is not elucidated. What was the determining factor ? Parenting or a normal social interaction with peers ?
 
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  • #86
Thats exactly the idea. I don't give a nickel if anyone believes or not. I don't ask you to believe me. I am not interested in convincing anyone. I stated an opinion and I presented in my last post a track wider than a motorway (Paul Bloom's course as a starting point). Follow it if you want to learn more about some interesting issues, and make your own mind about them.
You made it sound like discussions in the general discussion subforum don't need references, implying other subforums do. I just thought it's strange to grant different subforums different rules regarding discussions.
And that's a lot of material to sift through to find the answer to the specific topic at hand. If someone wants to know the meaning of a word, I don't tell them to read the entire dictionary until they come to it.
 
  • #87
DanP said:
Thats exactly the idea. I don't give a nickel if anyone believes or not. I don't ask you to believe me. I am not interested in convincing anyone. I stated an opinion and I presented in my last post a track wider than a motorway (Paul Bloom's course as a starting point). Follow it if you want to learn more about some interesting issues, and make your own mind about them.
That's an unreasonable demand, isn't it? That anyone hoping to read the reference supporting your claim have to go through a one-semester course in psychology? Could you not at least point to the relevant lecture?

And if you weren't interested in convincing anyone we wouldn't have had the back-and-forth "is too" ... "is not" debate that we witnessed above.

Also, what you stated was not an opinion. An opinion is something like "I believe that blah is bloo" as opposed to "Sorry, but that's just the way it is."

And finally, posting in GD doesn't recuse you from having to support statements of fact, especially those which are claimed to be scientific statements of fact. Were that the case, every wandering crackpot would get away with posting his/her pet theory in GD.

PS: Not comparing you with wandering crackpots.
 
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  • #88
mheslep said:
Why Bloom's Intro to Psych course in particular? Have you taken his class, or read his material, or are you asserting that most any Intro to Pysch course (versus a Developmental course) would support your claim? In the case of this course, do you mean that Lecture 5 "The Development of Thought" would support your assertion?

I audited his material. I think you should audit the all set, but the debate on "mum and dead ****ed me up" is in Lecture 13 , "Why Are People Different?: Differences ". It's a great course and a good starting point in any further exploration for example behavioral genetics, human motivation and social psychology.

You could try to find developmental psychology courses as well, but I am not sure if you will find too many on internet, as opposed to intro Psych. Berekely may have a developmental course and one on developmental psychopatology on their podcasts , but I am not sure.

You could also try to audit a course in Social psychology, specially sections dedicated to self and self-awareness, and how social identity is built. Try to find UCLA's Matthew Lieberman social psych course, its excellent and if i recall correctly it does talk about development of self.

Make up your own mind on it. I am not going to tell you that parents do not count at all, what I tell is that their role is way less pronounced than the dogma says.
 
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  • #89
DanP said:
Thats exactly the idea. I don't give a nickel if anyone believes or not. I don't ask you to believe me. I am not interested in convincing anyone.
Of course you do, or you wouldn't go about responding to disagreement with
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2722634&postcount=77"
and
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2722891&postcount=87"
DanP said:
[...]I stated an opinion[...]
If you had in fact just stated an opinion, ala "I think/believe parenting is minor/overrated/secondary/useless ...", no problem, but you did not:
DanP said:
Nevertheless, research in developmental psychology indicates exactly the fact that parents has a relative minor role on how the children will turn out to be as an adult. And a truth doesn't have to be liked.
 
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  • #90
DanP said:
I audited his material. I think you should audit the all set, but the debate on "mum and dead ****ed me up" is in Lecture 13 , "Why Are People Different?: Differences ".
Thanks

Make up your own mind on it. I am not going to tell you that parents do not count at all, what I tell is that their role is way less pronounced than the dogma says.
Now that's a fair enough expression of opinion.
 
  • #91
physics girl phd said:
If you don't have kids you either go out for beer yourself, or you just plain don't need beer.

With kids, it sometimes seems a constant balancing act between coffee and beer, just to stay alive each day. Guess in a way it's like grad school.

Wow! Now I'm really glad I never had kids. What would I turn to if I already have a constant balancing act between coffee and beer? :biggrin:

But, true, without kids you don't need to send anyone out for beer because you can still go out to bars.

It was rough for a while, because all my friends had young children and suddenly weren't allowed out to play anymore, or at least not without 3 months of planning, schedule juggling, permission from their spouse, and an early curfew. It's tough to be the only unmarried person without kids who doesn't have the next 6 months scheduled and just wants to go out TONIGHT because it was a hard day at work and you want to be a little social.

It's improving now. Now many of them have teenagers, so the teens can be left alone a few hours or can fend for themselves to microwave dinner or some such if they want to go out. Then there are the divorcees who only have to worry about schedules every other weekend, two weeks in the summer and alternating holidays. Then there's the other half of the divorcees who get to go out every other weekend, two weeks in the summer and alternating holidays. So, yeah, life gets more fun for everyone again.
 
  • #92
Moonbear said:
Wow! Now I'm really glad I never had kids. What would I turn to if I already have a constant balancing act between coffee and beer? :biggrin:

But, true, without kids you don't need to send anyone out for beer because you can still go out to bars.

Yeah, I agree, life is funny and great for a unmarried and childless person.
 
  • #93
DanP said:
I audited his material. I think you should audit the all set, but the debate on "mum and dead ****ed me up" is in Lecture 13 , "Why Are People Different?: Differences ". It's a great course and a good starting point in any further exploration for example behavioral genetics, human motivation and social psychology.

You could try to find developmental psychology courses as well, but I am not sure if you will find too many on internet, as opposed to intro Psych. Berekely may have a developmental course and one on developmental psychopatology on their podcasts , but I am not sure.

You could also try to audit a course in Social psychology, specially sections dedicated to self and self-awareness, and how social identity is built. Try to find UCLA's Matthew Lieberman social psych course, its excellent and if i recall correctly it does talk about development of self.

Make up your own mind on it. I am not going to tell you that parents do not count at all, what I tell is that their role is way less pronounced than the dogma says.

I checked out the lecture transcript, and really, it's not necessarily supporting Judith Harris' view, just putting it out there as ONE explanation, and a controversial one at that, which it is. A blatant omission in Judith Harris' "theory" is that she rejects out of hand the notion of a feedback loop, because for some reason, she seemed simply uncomfortable with a loop. In everything she describes, there is very much a possibility that there is a cycle of reinforcement between parent and child and not that it is all unidirectional, but she seems to want to force the view that all influence must be in one direction.

She also tends to dismiss other studies with evidence that is addressing a different point, and not directly contradicting the initial study. For example, in talking about birth order, she rejects that the time a first born is raised with the full, undivided attention of new parents is going to be beneficial to the first born child because asking parents later in life which child they favor resulted in them overwhelmingly favoring the youngest child. What's to say that BOTH aren't important? Maybe being favored a bit more later on in life compensates for never being the sole focus of your parents' attention for any length of time?

And, while peers certainly influence kids' behavioral development too, don't "good" parents also influence selection of peers? Mine certainly did. It seems well-recognized that kids do things their peers do (but then where did their peers get that from?), but a strong parental contribution is who they permit you to interact with as peers. I know, at least from my own upbringing, if I made a new friend at school, there was a screening process of some sort through which my parents decided if their parents were suitably responsible and a good influence for me to visit their home, or if my friend had to come to my house to play, or if I was allowed to spend time with them at all.

Again, in all these cases, it's true that it's difficult to separate cause and effect since there is two-directional interaction. But, Judith Harris really seems to want to reject any influence at all simply because it's hard to tease apart cause and effect, and refuses consideration that it could be BOTH cause and effect in a feedback loop of parent-offspring interactions.

So, I don't think Judith Harris' views are widely accepted among developmental psychologists. Just skimming through the articles in the current edition of Developmental Psychology shows that this is far from a consensus view or closed case.
 
  • #94
Moonbear said:
I checked out the lecture transcript, and really, it's not necessarily supporting Judith Harris' view, just putting it out there as ONE explanation, and a controversial one at that, which it is.
Same here, read and listened and that was also my take, though given the scorn Bloom heaped on the have-dinner-with-the-family study/poll I had the impression that Bloom leans towards Harris' view point.
 

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