Saippo
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Since when you freeze liquid water, there's an expansion, wouldn't that mean there's work?
Right. In this way, work is dependent on volume. So ice does work when it's expanding. Work is simply the energy required to do something--and the ice is obviously using energy to melt. Actually, it's increasing in energy as it melts.Saippo said:delta W = pAs = pV so a change of volume would indicate a change of work wouldn't it?
Water has a lesser volume than ice.Saippo said:I guess what sort of made me wonder about it is when ice melts, the volume doesn't actually change..right? So no work. But if you freeze liquid water, ice expands. So work done?
Not only did he beat you to it, but his answer is correct, and yours isn't. Most of the energy involved in melting has nothing to do with the work done by atmospheric pressure. Also, ice receives work from the atmosphere in contracting; it doesn't expand when it melts.ProfuselyQuarky said:Right. In this way, work is dependent on volume. So ice does work when it's expanding. Work is simply the energy required to do something--and the ice is obviously using energy to melt. Actually, it's increasing in energy as it melts.
EDIT: Oh, Tazerfish beat me to it.
I wasn't talking about pressure. I was talking about volume. And I never said ice expands when it melts.Chestermiller said:Not only did he beat you to it, but his answer is correct, and yours isn't. Most of the energy involved in melting has nothing to do with the work done by atmospheric pressure. Also, ice receives work from the atmosphere in contracting; it doesn't expand when it melts.
Work is equal to ##\int{P_{ext}}dV##, where, in this case, ##P_{ext}## is atmospheric pressure. So a change in volume in melting ice is accompanied by work being done. This is a small part of the heat of melting.ProfuselyQuarky said:I wasn't talking about pressure. I was talking about volume. And I never said ice expands when it melts.
Tazerfish said:A little disclaimer: The energies in this(only for ice not other enthalpy stuff) are absolutely pathetic.