Does It Look Bad To Go To The Same School For Undergrad And Ph.D?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the perception of attending the same university for both undergraduate and Ph.D. programs. Participants explore the implications of this choice on academic and professional opportunities, considering factors such as diversity of experience, institutional reputation, and employer perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that attending the same school for both degrees is viewed negatively, often referred to as "academic incest," and may limit exposure to diverse academic environments.
  • Others argue that the importance of this perception varies by institution and field, with some noting that top schools may have policies against admitting their own undergraduates to graduate programs.
  • A few participants emphasize that factors such as program quality, personal performance, and financial considerations are more significant than the institution's name on a CV.
  • One participant highlights that in Europe, it is more common for students to pursue their Ph.D. at the same university, suggesting that the stigma may be more pronounced in the U.S.
  • Some participants share personal experiences, indicating that having both degrees from the same institution has not negatively impacted their careers, particularly in industry.
  • Concerns about how this choice might be perceived by employers versus academia are raised, with some asserting that employers prioritize skills over institutional pedigree.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether attending the same school for both degrees is detrimental. Some agree on the potential stigma, while others challenge its significance, indicating a lack of agreement on this issue.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that perceptions may differ based on geographical location, academic discipline, and individual career paths, highlighting the complexity of the topic.

Eleknar
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Does It Look "Bad" To Go To The Same School For Undergrad And Ph.D?

If the school that you're attending for your undergrad also has a Ph.D. program that interest you would it look bad on your curriculum vitae to have the same school listed twice? I've heard that you should try to go to a different school for your Ph.D. because it shows diversity. Is there any truth to this?
 
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Yes, that's considered 'academic incest'. Some top schools (like MIT) won't even consider their own undergraduates for their graduate programs for that reason. You should go somewhere new, work with new people, make new connections, learn new ways of doing things.
 
eri said:
Yes, that's considered 'academic incest'. Some top schools (like MIT) won't even consider their own undergraduates for their graduate programs for that reason. You should go somewhere new, work with new people, make new connections, learn new ways of doing things.

But how does it look to employers? Pretty much the same?
 
I almost went to the same school as my undergrad for my Phd but I wanted a new perspective on things. I had some professors that were alright and others that I would take 10 classes from. To academia, I could see staying at the same school to be an issue because academia has their own little pompous world. It might raise questions if you were capable of getting into other schools or you don't like change. Academia is also very political, so if you can make relationships with certain professors they can open bigger doors than others.

To employers it won't matter. Employers want your skills exploited and if you have the skills they need you're in.
 
It's not really a major factor at all in my opinion.

Factors such as the quality of the program itself, the instructors, the opportunities, your actual performance in the program, and even financial constraints are far more important.
 
It's much more common (doing a phd in the same university) in Europe as far as I've seen. Seeing how most have to go through a masters first, unless they can afford to go elsewhere, they'll probably get more research contact with profs at their home institutions.

It seems only American academics view this as a problem.

Personally I don't see what the problem is. I went to the school in my country which houses the top Solar physics research group (publication and impact-factor wise, and the folks are a lovely bunch). Why should I have to go elsewhere if I wanted to do a PhD in this field?
 
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The short answer is "yes, it does look bad." However, a few comments:

The perception is there, but it seems as though it varies from school to school and field to field. Of course, counter-examples exist: http://www.math.wisc.edu/~ellenber/cvform%20Jan%202013.pdf. Dr. Ellenberg is a professor of mathematics at UWisc-Madison, widely and consistently considered one of the top mathematics schools for both undergrad and graduate studies. He obtained both his B.A. and his PhD from Harvard. Now, you might say, "Well, of course, that's Harvard!" but the complain about academic incest has been, from what I've seen, largely unconcerned with the quality of the institution and far more concerned with the relative lack of exposure a candidate with a single-institution education supposedly has.

I'm not sure if there is a stigma attached to single-institution education outside of academia.
 
eri said:
Yes, that's considered 'academic incest'. Some top schools (like MIT) won't even consider their own undergraduates for their graduate programs for that reason. You should go somewhere new, work with new people, make new connections, learn new ways of doing things.

I know quite a few people who have both BS and PhD degrees from MIT - they all went straight through without leaving, too. So it might happen more than you think. I also did PhD and undergrad at the same school (NOT MIT). It hasn't seemed to hurt me yet. When I interview a candidate with a PhD from MIT I do NOT hold it against them if they also did undergrad there! I must say that I am in industry, though, as are the MIT folks I know. I do not know how academia views this in general. Most PhD's do not end up in academia, of course.

jason
 
My reason for asking the original question: I am pursuing my B.S. in physics at Indiana University South Bend. Indiana University, the main campus about 3 hours away from where I live, supposedly has a great astronomy program. I was just thinking that if it's a good program and it wouldn't look bad then heck, why not! It would definitely be convenient. Regardless, I still have lots of time to think about grad schools.
 

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