Does peace occur before real space travel ?

[Physics-Learner]

i think the masses already suspect there is intelligent life out there.

Irrelevant on two counts; firstly the number of people believing something doesn't make it true. Secondly billions of people believe in a God but it would still be pretty destabilizing if that God appeared in the sky for all to see.

*****
hi ryan,

thank you for the thoughtful reply. i only have time to comment on this one, for now. i don't see my comment as being irrelevant on either count. i did not say that something is true because a large amount of people think something is true. i simply said it would not surprise them. if i think A is true, and i am shown proof that A is true, i would typically say "that's what i thought".

surely you must realize your mistake on your second count. of course the appearance of god could be destabilizing to even believers. that is because he would be the creator of everything and no doubt put us in complete awe. we would not have that same awe for an alien, in that sort of emotional sense. if, as i said, the alien was not trying to harm us, i don't think the population as a whole would be scared.

nor do i think we would become destabilized. hopefully we could become better informed about a lot of things, and if we are lucky, come away with some sort of "invention or process" by which our human condition could be bettered.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

i simply said it would not surprise them. if i think A is true, and i am shown proof that A is true, i would typically say "that's what i thought".

This really depends on what A is. If I quickly did a calculation in my head and came to 540 then someone with a calculator confirms it I get a far different reaction to if I think that there's a possibility space-faring aliens exist and then I witness a UFO outside my window.

surely you must realize your mistake on your second count. of course the appearance of god could be destabilizing to even believers. that is because he would be the creator of everything and no doubt put us in complete awe. we would not have that same awe for an alien, in that sort of emotional sense. if, as i said, the alien was not trying to harm us, i don't think the population as a whole would be scared.

Destabilising doesn't necessarily mean riots everywhere, destabilising as in it would force a radical change in how people see our position in the world. And of course people would be afraid! A few weeks ago there were people worldwide trying to commit suicide because they thought the world was going to end, people are not rational creatures. IMO people would have the same reaction to a huge ship suddenly spotted flying around the solar system as they would to finding a monster walking through their house, even if it isn't hurting them it is alien, unknowns with intelligence are a widespread fear amongst humans.

nor do i think we would become destabilized. hopefully we could become better informed about a lot of things, and if we are lucky, come away with some sort of "invention or process" by which our human condition could be bettered.

I don't know what to make of this. Why would you think we would learn anything about the human condition or invent something new purely because we observe other intelligent life?

No offence but thanks to the pervasion of star trek in your ideas throughout this thread I have a sinking feeling that you are envisioning first contact as an event where anthropic aliens with slightly pointed ears land on Earth and teach us how to live our lives better.

 

[Physics-Learner]

Originally Posted by Physics-Learner View Post

i simply said it would not surprise them. if i think A is true, and i am shown proof that A is true, i would typically say "that's what i thought".

This really depends on what A is. If I quickly did a calculation in my head and came to 540 then someone with a calculator confirms it I get a far different reaction to if I think that there's a possibility space-faring aliens exist and then I witness a UFO outside my window.

*****

the witnessing of an event is "exciting", for sure. but after it is over, and we are contemplating the same knowledge (in this case, that an alien is here), the wonderment of the actual sighting will go away. and then we are left with the knowledge that the alien is here.

 

[Physics-Learner]

surely you must realize your mistake on your second count. of course the appearance of god could be destabilizing to even believers. that is because he would be the creator of everything and no doubt put us in complete awe. we would not have that same awe for an alien, in that sort of emotional sense. if, as i said, the alien was not trying to harm us, i don't think the population as a whole would be scared.

Destabilising doesn't necessarily mean riots everywhere, destabilising as in it would force a radical change in how people see our position in the world. And of course people would be afraid! A few weeks ago there were people worldwide trying to commit suicide because they thought the world was going to end, people are not rational creatures. IMO people would have the same reaction to a huge ship suddenly spotted flying around the solar system as they would to finding a monster walking through their house, even if it isn't hurting them it is alien, unknowns with intelligence are a widespread fear amongst humans.

**
well, this was the main point of my original post. how apt would an alien race, capable of visiting us, be violent towards us ? and i am not convinced of their benevolent nature. so i would just as soon not have anyone visit, and not take the chance.

but once someone was here, my reaction would be different. i figure that i no longer have much say so, in that they probably could destroy us if they wanted to.

i certainly agree with you that we earthians would no longer be able to view ourselves as the "only ones". certainly, some people would be afraid. in fact, i think most of us would be, at first.

 

[Physics-Learner]

nor do i think we would become destabilized. hopefully we could become better informed about a lot of things, and if we are lucky, come away with some sort of "invention or process" by which our human condition could be bettered.

I don't know what to make of this. Why would you think we would learn anything about the human condition or invent something new purely because we observe other intelligent life?

No offence but thanks to the pervasion of star trek in your ideas throughout this thread I have a sinking feeling that you are envisioning first contact as an event where anthropic aliens with slightly pointed ears land on Earth and teach us how to live our lives better.

**

if it is us doing the observing, perhaps not. i was thinking of them visiting us, where they would more than likely have knowledge that we do not.

no offense taken. i don't know that i have an idea of what motives might be typical of a visiting alien ? again, the whole point of my original post.

fyi, i am charmed by star trek, but not because of the sci-fi aspect. that is just a basis for the show. the main aspect of the show is character development, and deep issues that we people have. how these characters handle such issues, and the relevance of these situations to our own human condition. at least with star trek, and tng - which were both gene roddenberry creations. i don't recall off-hand how much voyager, deep space nine, and enterprise followed along with that.

thanks for the discussions.