Does Roger Penrose's Big Bang cyclic-universe thing make sense?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Roger Penrose's concept of a cyclic universe, where the current universe is viewed as one of many that have existed in succession. Participants explore the implications of this model, particularly regarding the nature of time, matter, and the transition from one universe to the next.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about Penrose's idea that the universe emerges from a prior universe that has aged to a state with negligible matter, questioning how time can exist without matter to create waves.
  • The same participant challenges the notion that the end of the prior universe could resemble the beginning of our universe, suggesting that if multiple universes could arise from a prior one, it contradicts Penrose's assertion of a single continuation.
  • Other participants request specific references to Penrose's work to clarify the model being discussed.
  • Some responses emphasize the need for valid academic references rather than informal sources like YouTube.
  • There is a suggestion that the discussion may not adhere to forum rules regarding sourcing, leading to a closure of the thread.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the clarity or validity of Penrose's model, with some expressing confusion and others focusing on the need for proper references.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding Penrose's model, particularly regarding the definitions of time and matter in the context of a cyclic universe. There is also a lack of formal references to support the claims made.

HomesliceMMA
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Does it make sense to anyone? He says our universe is just one in a long line of prior universes. But the big bang was not so much starting from a very small area, but instead results out of a prior universe that had gotten so old that essentially it has no matter, and when there is no matter time essentially stops, and it is out of this that essentially our universe was borne, with that state at the end of the prior universe making it look like there was inflation. I'm not saying it as eloquently as he is, but something like that.

This really makes no sense to me. First of all, he says matter is at its core waves, so once there is no matter (or essentially no matter, he seems to hem on this point a bit), and waves are used to keep time. Once there is no matter, there are no waves, nothing to keep time, so there is no time. Again, something like that. But that piece of it makes no sense to me - because as wavelike as matter is, photons are at least as wavelike. Why on earth would time stop if there are still photons that act as waves? Seems very silly to me.

Then I don't get his point about the end of the prior universe looking like the beginning our our universe (complete with what looks like inflation). I mean, if his point is that our universe sprang out of prior one, I would understand that - but then theoretically many universes could have sprang from the prior universe given that our (obervable) universe seems to have started very small, presumably many other very small universes would or could have sprang out if an insanely large prior one. But he seems to be saying no, our universe is somehow a continuation of that prior one. So single universe before, single one now. But how? I just don't get the picture he is trying to describe.

Anyone follow him better than I or have thoughts?

Thanks!
 
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Please give a specific reference to a paper where Penrose presents the model you are asking about.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Please give a specific reference to a paper where Penrose presents the model you are asking about.

Nah, its all over youtube. I'm confident you can find it, it will take any intelligent person about half a second
 
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HomesliceMMA said:
Nah, its all over youtube. I'm confident you can find it, it will take any intelligent person about half a second
Are you TRYING to get banned from PF?
 
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HomesliceMMA said:
You are unreal

Did you even read the rules you agreed to obey?
 
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HomesliceMMA said:
Nah, its all over youtube.
And none of those sources are valid references for a PF discussion. You need to find a textbook or peer-reviewed paper. If you find one, you can start a new thread with it.

This thread is closed.
 
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