Does the magnetic force affect lateral movement of a magnet on a metal plate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of magnetic force on the lateral movement of a magnet positioned above a metal plate. Participants explore the relationship between the magnetic pull and the effort required to slide the plate laterally, considering various assumptions such as the absence of friction and the positioning of the magnet.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a magnet manufacturing site that suggests the force required to move a magnet laterally away from a metal plate is minimal compared to moving it directly away from the magnet.
  • One participant questions the consistency of the claims made about the forces involved, pointing out a potential change in parameters from "minimal" to "not really affected."
  • Another participant argues that if the magnet is positioned at the edge of the plate, there would be a lateral force on a stationary magnet, and this force would also be present if the magnet is moving laterally.
  • Participants discuss the implications of pulling the steel plate to the side while the magnet pulls downward, questioning whether the effort required is greater than without the magnetic force.
  • One participant suggests that the upward pulling force of the magnet adds impediments to lateral movement and proposes various factors that might influence this, including friction and aspects of the magnetic field.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that a changing magnetic field due to lateral movement could induce an electrical current in the plate, generating a counteractive magnetic field that would impede the lateral motion of the magnet.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which magnetic forces affect lateral movement, with some asserting that there is an impediment while others question the nature of this effect. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise relationship between magnetic force and lateral movement.

Contextual Notes

Participants assume a frictionless scenario and explore the implications of various positions of the magnet relative to the plate. There are unresolved questions about the exact nature of forces at play and the influence of the magnetic field on lateral movement.

gloo
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According to a magnet manufacturing site, the force required to move a magnet that is attracted to a metal plate laterally away from underneath a magnet is minimal relative to the force required to move it away from the magnet directly away in the opposite direction of pulling force. Assuming the magnets are close but not touching (thus no frictional force between the magnet surface and the metal plate surface), how true is it that the force to move the plate away from the magnet laterally by sliding it left or right (i.e. - the pull force of magnet is up or down) is not really affected by the magnetic force?

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=magnetic-forces

"With a magnet attracting towards a steel plate, there is no lateral force. That’s right, the magnetic force only pulls straight towards the plate, normal to the surface."
 
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gloo said:
According to a magnet manufacturing site, the force required to move a magnet that is attracted to a metal plate laterally away from underneath a magnet is minimal relative to the force required to move it away from the magnet directly away in the opposite direction of pulling force. Assuming the magnets are close but not touching (thus no frictional force between the magnet surface and the metal plate surface), how true is it that the force to move the plate away from the magnet laterally by sliding it left or right (i.e. - the pull force of magnet is up or down) is not really affected by the magnetic force?
You've changed the parameters from the start of you paragraph to the end, from "minimal" to "not really affected". Why is that?

https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=magnetic-forces

"With a magnet attracting towards a steel plate, there is no lateral force. That’s right, the magnetic force only pulls straight towards the plate, normal to the surface."
The title of your thread implies a magnet in lateral motion, I believe your bolded comment is for a stationary magnet, somewhat centered on a plate.
If the magnet were positioned at the edge of a plate, there would be a lateral force on a stationary magnet.
There will also be a lateral force if the magnet is moving laterally.
 
OmCheeto said:
You've changed the parameters from the start of you paragraph to the end, from "minimal" to "not really affected". Why is that?

All I am trying to say or ask is whether the magnetic pull force have any kind of interference on the effort to pull the steel plate laterally .

The title of your thread implies a magnet in lateral motion, I believe your bolded comment is for a stationary magnet, somewhat centered on a plate.
If the magnet were positioned at the edge of a plate, there would be a lateral force on a stationary magnet.
There will also be a lateral force if the magnet is moving laterally.

For instance...if the magnet is facing upward and pulling downward on the steelplate -- if I pull away the steel plate to the side (left or right) so that the force applied is perpendicular to the direction of the magnet's pull force, is the effort greater than without a magnetic force? I am assuming that the magnets are not touch and thus there is no frictional force between the surfaces of the magnet and the steel plate (just assume there is some magic material between them that prevents touching and is fricitonless)
 
gloo said:
For instance...if the magnet is facing upward and pulling downward on the steelplate -- if I pull away the steel plate to the side (left or right) so that the force applied is perpendicular to the direction of the magnet's pull force, is the effort greater than without a magnetic force?
Yes
 
OmCheeto said:
Yes
So the upward pulling force of the magnet adds impediments obviously what I am asking is for some kind of guide as to how - my guesses are:

1. I assumed away friction forces of the surfaces touching - maybe the friction on whatever contraption I use to prevent the surfaces touching?

2. Some parts of the magnetic field that does not involve a force that is vertical will interfere?
 
gloo said:
So the upward pulling force of the magnet adds impediments obviously what I am asking is for some kind of guide as to how - my guesses are:

1. I assumed away friction forces of the surfaces touching - maybe the friction on whatever contraption I use to prevent the surfaces touching?
Just go "textbook", and say there is no friction. Problem solved!
2. Some parts of the magnetic field that does not involve a force that is vertical will interfere?
If the magnet is moving laterally in relation to the steel plate, the changing magnetic field in the plate will induce an electrical current, which will generate a counteractive magnetic field, which will impede the lateral motion of the magnet.

This can be seen experimentally on the following video from between t=0:56 to t=1:23.

 

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