Double checking organic chem mechanisms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around organic chemistry mechanisms, specifically focusing on various reactions involving alkenes and alcohols. Participants seek clarification on the steps and reasoning behind these reactions, including the roles of acids, bases, and reagents in the mechanisms.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the mechanism of CH2OHCH3 in H+, suggesting that H+ bonds with OH to form H2O, but is uncertain about the fate of the other hydrogen.
  • Another participant proposes that the other hydrogen leaves through a carbocation mechanism, indicating that the acid is H+A-.
  • In the reaction of RC≡CR' in Na/NH3, a participant confirms that the two hydrogens come from NH3, suggesting a source for the additional hydrogens in the product.
  • Participants discuss the addition of OH and H from H3O+ in RCH=CH2, with one confirming that both come from H3O+ and that OH adds to the most substituted carbon.
  • In the reaction involving Hg(OAc)2/H2O and NaBH4, participants explore the origin of OH and H, with one asserting that OH adds to the most substituted carbon.
  • For the BH3/THF and H2O2/OH- reaction, one participant speculates that OH adds to the least substituted carbon and outlines a proposed mechanism involving Br and H from BH3.
  • Participants express confusion regarding the reactions of ROH with SOCl2 and TsCl, with one questioning the formation of RCl and ROTs, and another providing insight into the expected outcomes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mechanisms and sources of reagents in several reactions, but some aspects remain contested or unclear, particularly regarding the reactions of ROH with SOCl2 and TsCl. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that mechanisms are not thoroughly covered in their classes, leading to reliance on memorization rather than understanding, which may limit the depth of discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and educators in organic chemistry, particularly those interested in reaction mechanisms and the reasoning behind them.

future_vet
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Hello,

I need to make sure I understand some of the reactions correctly... For example:

CH2OHCH3 in H+ will give us CH2=CH2. I would think that here the H+ bonded with the OH resulting in H2O (a leaving group), but I am not sure what happens to the other leaving H.

In RC≡CR' in Na/NH3, we get RCH=CHR' in an anti addition. Where did the 2 H come from? The NH3?

RCH=CH2 in H3O+ gives RCHOHCH3. Did the OH and H come from the H3O+? Do we then have one last H that does not bond with the molecule? And did the OH add to the C bonded with the R because it is the most substituted carbon?

In RCH=CH2 in (1) Hg(OAc)2/H2O and (2) NaBH4, NaOH, we get RCHOHCH3. Where did the OH and H come from? Did the OH add to the C bonded with the R because it is the most substituted carbon?

In RCH=CH2 in (1) BH3/THF and (2) H2O2/OH- we get RCH2CH2OH. Did the OH add to the C because it was the least substituted? Also, is the mechanism the following: first, Br (from BH3) bonds with the least subst. carbon, and H also from BH3 adds to the other C, thus breaking the double bond. Then in step (2) Br is replaced by OH, from OH-.

And finally:
a) ROH + SOCl2 -> RCl
and
b) ROH + TsCl ---(base)--> ROTs

These 2 reactions confuse me. I thought that in a) the H would bond with a Cl giving HCl + RSOCl. Why does it give RCl?
However in b) what I thought would happen in a) does take place. H and Cl bond, resulting in ROTs. Why?

Thank you so much for your help, I hope I was clear enough!
 
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future_vet said:
CH2OHCH3 in H+ will give us CH2=CH2. I would think that here the H+ bonded with the OH resulting in H2O (a leaving group), but I am not sure what happens to the other leaving H.
The acid is H+A-. The other H atom (through a carbocation mechanism) goes away with the conjugate base, A-
 
Thanks!
 
future_vet said:
In RC≡CR' in Na/NH3, we get RCH=CHR' in an anti addition. Where did the 2 H come from? The NH3?
Yes, one H-atom from each NH3.

RCH=CH2 in H3O+ gives RCHOHCH3. Did the OH and H come from the H3O+? Do we then have one last H that does not bond with the molecule? And did the OH add to the C bonded with the R because it is the most substituted carbon?
Yes, yes and yes. Look up the mechanism for electrophilic addition to alkenes through carbocation formation on the most substituted carbon.
 
Thank you so much, you're so helpful!
We rarely get the mechanisms in class, as we are told we have to do a lot of memorization. But I found that understanding the mechanism allows me to remember the reactions for the rest of the semester, instead of relying on memorization.
 
future_vet said:
In RCH=CH2 in (1) Hg(OAc)2/H2O and (2) NaBH4, NaOH, we get RCHOHCH3. Where did the OH and H come from? Did the OH add to the C bonded with the R because it is the most substituted carbon?

In RCH=CH2 in (1) BH3/THF and (2) H2O2/OH- we get RCH2CH2OH. Did the OH add to the C because it was the least substituted? Also, is the mechanism the following: first, Br (from BH3) bonds with the least subst. carbon, and H also from BH3 adds to the other C, thus breaking the double bond. Then in step (2) Br is replaced by OH, from OH-.
You will find these mechanisms in any standard O Chem text. In Morrisson & Boyd (6th Ed.), this is in Ch 9: Reactions of Alkenes.
 

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