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Double Sun -- Mirage or Hoax or Physics

  1. Jan 6, 2016 #1
    The following phenomenon was posted on a discussion group forum to which I subscribe. The link below is to a UTube video that seems to show a very strange sunrise/sunset (not sure which it is). >>>Assuming this whole thing is not a photoshop fraud (which it may very well be)<<<, then is there a reasonable physical explanation for the horizontal display of side-by-side dual Sun images? If such an explanation exists, I presume it will have to do with the atmospheric refraction effects seen at sunrise that present an image of the Sun before it actually rises above the horizon, or some such thing. Or is this something else, like an abberant lens causing distortion, or what?



    Thanks

    Pete B
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 6, 2016 #2
    Tatooine? (I think this is a hoax)
     
  4. Jan 6, 2016 #3

    jedishrfu

    Staff: Mentor

    I think its a real phenomena. What you're seeing is a single sun image with a cloud bisecting it in a way to appear as two setting suns.

    If you look at the very outer edges you can see the oblong shape characteristic of a setting sun ie a more elliptcal/flattened shape.

    Cloud haze on the left diminishes the light a bit more than on the right.
     
  5. Jan 6, 2016 #4

    That is a good possibility. I did not think of that. But I would still like to see if there are any other ideas. Thanks

    Pete B
     
  6. Jan 6, 2016 #5
    I totally agree, seems like a funnel shaped cloud is obscuring a larger view. looks like a "water spout" that would account for the haze on one side do to its rotation.
     
  7. Jan 6, 2016 #6

    fresh_42

    Staff: Mentor

  8. Jan 6, 2016 #7

    jedishrfu

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    In this case, I don't think its a hunter's moon because the "second sun" is too close to the real sun.

    If it were that close then we'd be seeing the beginnings of an eclipse.
     
  9. Jan 6, 2016 #8
    The rightmost sun looks very white. I don't think that's possible when it's so close to the horizon. The edges of the clouds above and below it should also be much brighter. The rightmost sun is IMO the result of the optical phenomenon known as "photoshop"
     
  10. Jan 6, 2016 #9
    It ( right sun ) is also very round, and has what looks like a wig around it
     
  11. Jan 6, 2016 #10

    russ_watters

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    Since the one on the right is fully saturated in brightness and the one on the left looks identical except for being much, much dimmer, that implies to me that it is an internal reflection in the camera. Note that the cloud cutting across the one on the right is clearly visible next to it, but the cloud cutting across the one on the left isn't: because there isn't one.
     
  12. Jan 7, 2016 #11

    davenn

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    not totally convinced that it lens flare, but I prefer that explanation over the earlier ones
    definitely a tricky one to diagnose


    D
     
  13. Jan 7, 2016 #12
    what makes me think it could be a still frame of a water spout is the haze to one side. as the spout spins it would be sucking moisture ,clouds, and debris to one side or the other making it hazy. .
     
  14. Jan 7, 2016 #13
    Probably the photo was taken through a double pane window, and the darker sun image is an internal reflection in the window. Its 20% larger horizontal diameter suggests some curvature of the reflecting surface.

    A similar example with three suns was discussed in the apod forum: click
     
  15. Jan 7, 2016 #14

    Chronos

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    As already noted the fainter (left) image is more oblate than the bright (right)
    image and the cloud across the upper quadrant of the faint image does not appear identical to the cloud across the bright image, so a refected image appears an unlikely candidate. Also, If this is a 4 minute video clip, as alluded, why does the plane never appear to move? I smell a hint of deception.​
     
  16. Jan 7, 2016 #15
    Surely a deceiver would have made two identical suns. It is just a common photo taken through ordinary double glazing, like this one. The surface of double glazing is often curved, the convex or concave shape adjusts to the atmospheric pressure.
     
  17. Jan 7, 2016 #16

    russ_watters

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    Yes, the longer path due to the internal reflection stretches the image along the plane of the path - the rays further from the center are longer than the rays closer to the center.
    The detector is saturated, so we can't see the full shape of the cloud in the main image. Saturation of the detector makes the image bleed.
    It's a 4 minute video of a guy talking about a photograph.
     
  18. Jan 7, 2016 #17

    russ_watters

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    I like your interpretation, but I don't think curvature is required: the angle changes the path length and stretches the image.
     
  19. Jan 8, 2016 #18
    Whatever the angle, flat mirrors outside the camera do not affect the apparent diameter of the sun. Double pane windows are outside.

    (In addition: the convex or concave shape of the window helps explain why the internal reflection is usually displaced in the horizontal direction. The observer's eye is usually halfway of the height of the window.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  20. Jan 8, 2016 #19

    OmCheeto

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    2016 Award

    I smell more than that!

    After much googling and snooping, I tracked down the purported photographer(Agoes Suwondo [ref 1] ), his occupation(photographer & vice manager [twitter & facebook] ), employer(CV. AN Studio ADVERTISING [facebook again] ), where the photo was taken from(sixth floor of the Radar Tarakan building, an Indonesian newspaper), and ended up with the following message on my browser;
    :oldsurprised:

    Anyways, the building is a curved, and the windows on the sixth floor, though individually flat, may have been smooshed, just enough to oblatisize the secondary image of the sun.

    Radar.Tarakan.building.Indonesia.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  21. Jan 8, 2016 #20

    OmCheeto

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    Since I only have one double pane window in my house, and the sun was fortuitously shining in the correct direction, I took a picture.

    double.pane.window.image.jpg

    Now, this doesn't really prove how the original picture was taken, nor created, only that double pane windows can create double images.

    As for how filthy my windows are, I can only claim as an excuse, that clean windows kill ≈ a billion birds a year, here in America.
     
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