# Dragon flight and whether it would be possible

## Main Question or Discussion Point

I'm wrestling with the question of dragon flight and whether it would be possible/feasible.
I've read the book "the Flight of Dragons" Peter Dickinson, Harper & row, 1979.

Dickinson argues that for a full sized dragon, which he puts at 90 feet long, six feet wide and 20,000 pounds, a dragon would need a wingspan of 600 feet (16,000 square feet) which is (according to him) aerodynamically impossible.
Dickinson theorizes that if dragons existed they would have flown by biologically produced, lighter than air gasses (like a zeppelin).

I want to know how i could calculate the wing span/area required for a 20ft 200lb dragon without gasses.

OR

what would be the maximum feasible dimensions for a purely wing powered dragon?

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I don't see anything that fundamentally prevents you taking an old design for a two-passenger glider, and replacing wood and canvas with bone and leather, for an idea of what a biologically engineered dragon might be like. That weight-estimate sounds excessive to me, don't birds tend to have light bodies (compared to their size and fierceness)?

Depends on your dragon...if you're looking into it as a reptilian dragon, then your design should be somewhat different from that of an airplane.

a reptilian dragon.

the design would differ from that of a plane because the wings are the means of propulsion as well as lift, and there needs to be a degree of maneuverability, and many myths refer to an ability to hover.

and both weight estimates seem pretty spot on to me (except mine might be a bit light, seriously, it's 20ft long, include internal organs, giant talons, a huge armoured head and flight muscles, as well as the scaly, armoured hide, thats a lot of weight, maybe it should be adjusted to 300lb...)

Dale
Mentor

What's the point? If you are writing about dragons then your readers obviously are not that stuck on realism. Just make their scales magically force air down, then they can be as large as you want and only need their wings for steering.

dude, the point is to try and be realistic (at least, within the realms of physical possibility) i want to actually calculate wing span/area, i looked up some formulas on teh interwebz and it all got too complicated, so i hoped someone nerdy (read: smart/can be bothered/already knows how/is experienced in the field) could just, like pull a formula from their arse and just say; "here, use this" all you guys have given me is ideas i've already had.

also this is a physics forum, if i could f*ck with the laws of physics (or thought i could) would I be here right now?

EDIT: if i was being insulting/condescending I'm Sorry: it's because i'm used to gaming forums, where the whole point is to be condescending/call each other n00bs

vanesch
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member

Please don't use offensive language. This is not an adolescent board. We don't allow slang.

Concerning the OP: what's wrong with *actual* flying reptilian "dragons": pterosaurs ?

we need FOUR legged reptiles with wings & teeth, besides all i want is a formula relating wing area to lift in flying animals, thats all i'm asking for, no extra suggestions, just a formula