Egypt Army gives Morsi a 48hr ultimatum

  • #26
Evo
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All men are born equal according to Islam.
Except non-believers (and of course women).

Qur'an 8:39-40--Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. If they desist, God is cognizant of all their actions; but if they give no heed, know then that God will protect you

Qur'an 9:29--Fight those who do not believe in God or the last day, and do not hold forbidden that which was forbidden by God and His Apostle, or acknowledge the religion of truth (even if they are) of the people of the book, until they pay jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
But we've gone off topic, this is about the army deposing Mursi.
 
  • #27
phinds
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Except non-believers (and of course women).
Evo, you're doing it again :smile:
 
  • #28
russ_watters
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Libya was yesterday, or was that Syria? But today is a different country.
Syria is still tomorrow.
 
  • #29
OmCheeto
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hmmm..... I think it would be really cool if one of the oldest nations, and one of the youngest nations, could both blow up billions of dollars worth of fireworks, on the same day. I think that would be really cool.

On the other hand, there should be a (sharia?) law that says they have to stop at 10 pm, when the 4th falls on a Thursday, and Om draws the short straw.......


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and has to work in the morning.......... :grumpy:
gosh darned kids nowadays!!!!!!
 
  • #30
OmCheeto
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A very recent post from a FB friend:

my.lady.friend.in.Abu.Dhabi.jpg

silly girl.......
 
  • #31
256bits
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Egypt will be the same as it was yesterday and the same as it will be tomorrow.
The people wanted some representation from the government, after the first series of protests a few years ago, and were not to be dismissed as pathetic sheep to be led around by the nose. Mursi did not understand that.

The army disposed him to save the country from what could have developed into more mayhem and claches between different factions. Remember that the protests started before the ultimatium from the army, and it was not the army as the instigator in all of this.

If the economic interests of the people had been put ahead of the Brotherhoods' then this second removal of a leader would not have happened, so Mursi was just a complete bonehead for not making a compromise in politics. It seems that even if he was elected, he reverted back to the dictatorial style of leadership that is customary and engrained into the cultural phychic of these type of people that seek authority and absolute authority.
 
  • #32
BobG
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If the economic interests of the people had been put ahead of the Brotherhoods' then this second removal of a leader would not have happened, so Mursi was just a complete bonehead for not making a compromise in politics. It seems that even if he was elected, he reverted back to the dictatorial style of leadership that is customary and engrained into the cultural phychic of these type of people that seek authority and absolute authority.
Bingo! Good ideology (from a Muslim Egyptian point of view) isn't enough if the leaders aren't actually good at running a country. I think they would have been better off just waiting until the next election, though. Or do what we do in the US - have recall elections and impeachments (not something I generally consider a good option, but certainly better than the option they chose).

I think we've seen the same problems before with Palestinians. One group that offered some hope of peace, but horrible at the day to day duties of government and one group officially considered a terrorist group, but half decent at the day to day duties of government. They chose the group that could actually run a government (with bad results, since Israel was never going to deal with Hamas).

Competence is a pretty important characteristic for an administration to have. Good intentions just aren't enough.
 
  • #33
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The majority of the people did not seem to want the Muslim Brotherhood to take control, IIRC. I just hope that the takeover by the people again does not become a war.

I thought the Muslim Brotherhood was popular, they did win more than 40% of the seats in parliament and their biggest rival was the even more radical Islamist Bloc.
 
  • #34
Evo
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I thought the Muslim Brotherhood was popular, they did win more than 40% of the seats in parliament and their biggest rival was the even more radical Islamist Bloc.
IIRC, the votes were questioned as to whether they were real or fraud.

But as 256bits posted, no matter, it was what they and Mursi did after the election that was wrong.
 
  • #35
nsaspook
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The Egyptian professional military (most with US training) has seen the disastrous results of strict religious rule in Iran on their counterparts from 1979 to the present, the Islamist military power grab in places like Turkey and will not repeat that mistake again. IMO a pure Islamist government is incompatible with Western-style democracy, fundamental human rights and what's most important to them, a strict military chain of command with military leaders at the top. In most Islamic country's with the facade of democracy the (fundamentally pro-secular) military actually controls the power strings and if we see "democracy" in Egypt it will be a puppet controlled by them as usual.

486x600.jpg
 
  • #36
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The Egyptian professional military (most with US training) has seen the disastrous results of strict religious rule in Iran on their counterparts from 1979 to the present, the Islamist military power grab in places like Turkey and will not repeat that mistake again.
At least so far it hasn't ended like when Algeria's military deposed an elected Islamist president.

The army saw this outcome as unacceptable. The FIS had made open threats against the ruling pouvoir, condemning them as unpatriotic and pro-French, as well as financially corrupt. Additionally, FIS leadership was at best divided on the desirability of democracy, and some expressed fears that a FIS government would be, as U. S. Assistant Secretary of State Edward Djerejian put it, "one man, one vote, one time. "
On January 11, 1992 the army cancelled the electoral process, forcing President Chadli Bendjedid to resign and bringing in the exiled independence fighter Mohammed Boudiaf to serve as a new president. However, on 29 June 1992 he was assassinated by one of his body guards, a Lieutenant L. Boumaarafi. The assassin was sentenced to death in a closed trial in 1995. The sentence was not carried out. So many FIS members were arrested—5,000 by the army's account, 30,000 according to FIS, and including Abdelkader Hachani—that the jails had insufficient space to hold them in; camps were set up for them in the Sahara desert, and bearded men feared to leave their houses lest they be arrested as FIS sympathizers.
A state of emergency was declared, and many ordinary constitutional rights were suspended. Any protests that occurred were suppressed, and human rights organizations, such as Amnesty International, reported frequent government use of torture and holding of suspects without charge or trial. The government officially dissolved the FIS on March 4.
Of the few FIS activists that remained free, many took this as a declaration of war. Throughout much of the country, remaining FIS activists, along with some Islamists too radical for FIS, took to the hills with whatever weapons were available and became guerrilla fighters. Their first attacks on the security forces (not counting the Guemmar incident) began barely a week after the coup, and soldiers and policemen rapidly became targets.
As in previous wars, the guerrillas were almost exclusively based in the mountains of northern Algeria, where the forest and scrub cover were well-suited to guerrilla warfare, and in certain areas of the cities; the very sparsely populated but oil-rich Sahara would remain mostly peaceful for almost the entire duration of the conflict. This meant that the government's principal source of money—oil exporting—was largely unaffected.
And that went on for ten years. Nasty.
 
  • #37
OmCheeto
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Do you REALLY think that the millions of Islamists in Egypt think that? I hope more Egyptians do think that way than don't but "the Egyptians" are a diverse lot.
Millions of Americans don't appear to share those views either.

Maybe we should force children to memorize and recite that instead of the pledge of allegiance.

Or perhaps, a modernized version of Lincoln's speech:

Om's Facebook Friend said:
"(Eleven Score and 17 Years Ago) Our Fathers brought forth on this continent a new Nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that ALL men are created Equal. NOW we are engaged in a Great Civil War, testing whether that Nation, or any nation so conceived and dedicated, can long endure.

We are met on a Great Battlefield of that War"

I choose liberty. I choose freedom. I choose a government that will uphold those ideals. I VOTE. And I will stay grateful for the notion that the Government of My United States IS a government "of the People, by the People, and for the People"

This Great Battlefield will only ENSURE our liberty. It will not take it away.

Happy Independance Day!
The Egyptians will have to edit the above themselves. I ain't doing the math on how many scores of years they bin around. :tongue2:

A demonstrator holds a cross and a Quran during an anti-‎Morsi rally in ‎Tahrir Square, ‎Cairo.

it.usually.starts.with.one.person.jpg


Via Al Jazeera, on Facebook
 
  • #38
OmCheeto
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Ha!

muslim.brotherhood.sounds.like.republicans.and.limbaugh.jpg

Not sure if anyone has been following American politics for the last 5 years, but this made me laugh.

----------------------
ps. For those who don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, he constantly calls it; "The Obama Regime"
And for those who haven't been following American politics for the last 5 years, the Republicans have not worked with our current President during that time. Nor did a lot of them recognize his legitimacy, as he is apparently a Kenyan. hmmm... Perhaps we should rename them; "Republican Brotherhood".
pps. Go Yankees!
 
  • #39
OmCheeto
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Yes!

Al Jazeera said:
Egypt____________________________ about an hour ago
Mohamed ElBaradei is to be named Egypt's Interim Prime Minister on Saturday.
Unfortunately, I'm senile, and can't remember why I love that guy. :redface:
 
  • #41
OmCheeto
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Yes!

Unfortunately, I'm senile, and can't remember why I love that guy. :redface:
Who needs a memory, when PF and Google are your friends. :biggrin:

OmCheeto said:
I would imagine that with the way the military and the protesters seem to have been getting along, a top general would be my best guess as a most probable new leader. But after that, as ElBaradei has said, it's up to Egyptians to create a new Egypt.
Good god, that was a good thread.

Though it looks like only Astronuc and Jimmy Snyder survived page 1.

Oh the humanity. They were italicized like flies.... :cry:


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for those not familiar with American/PF/Omic idiomatic humor:

drop like flies
Fig. to faint, sicken, collapse, or die, in great numbers like houseflies dying in a large group. It was a terrible year for the flu. People were dropping like flies.

italicized
Fig. death of a PF'er. Either executed for blasphemy, or suicide: same result.

On a brighter note, DevilsAvocado, lisab, and a few others and I survived pages 2 though 76.

--------------------------

Interesting find by Char. Limit back then:

America is a strong supporter of democracy worldwide. Except, of course, when we aren't. That piece of doublethink has been at the center of American foreign policy pretty much since World War II, and it is the heart of the conundrum we now find ourselves in regards to what is happening in Egypt and other countries in North Africa and the Middle East. Because we're conceptually all in favor of democracy -- right up until the "wrong" person or group wins an election. According to our definition of "wrong," of course. This is the key drawback to democracy (and American support of democracy in the rest of the world) -- sometimes the "wrong" people win.
Sometimes, they do.
 
  • #42
OmCheeto
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Never heard about that. But that was 10 years ago, so in my senility, I may have.

Intelligence documents that U.S. and British governments said were strong evidence that Iraq was developing nuclear weapons have been dismissed as forgeries by U.N. weapons inspectors.

The documents, given to International Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, indicated that Iraq might have tried to buy 500 tons of uranium from Niger, but the agency said they were "obvious" fakes.
Um... No. I would not have forgotten that.

I recall I was on the fence when we invaded Iraq in 2003, as I assumed, and still assume, that the US President has the most information available to anyone on the planet.

But then, later, we discovered, the truth about the WoMD......

(Chauncey Gardner=GW)
 
  • #43
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The yellow cake issue was so absurd. 550 tons of yellowcake had been in Iraq since before Israel bombed out their nuclear development facility.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=50430

This pretty much proves it was there. Yet it disproves the allegation that recent attempts to buy yellowcake had occurred.

Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei was wrong.
 
  • #44
OmCheeto
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The yellow cake issue was so absurd. 550 tons of yellowcake had been in Iraq since before Israel bombed out their nuclear development facility.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/07/iraq.uranium/

http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=50430

This pretty much proves it was there. Yet it disproves the allegation that recent attempts to buy yellowcake had occurred.

Atomic Energy Agency Director General Mohamed ElBaradei was wrong.
Live and learn. Thank you edward.

Though I still think ElBaradei's comment is what caught my eye about him initially; "it's up to Egyptians to create a new Egypt."

I'd say it's true of any nation.
 
  • #45
lisab
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The kid in this video made me want to cry - but in a good way o:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I
 
  • #46
Astronuc
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The kid in this video made me want to cry - but in a good way o:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I
D@mn, that kid is great! I see a future president or world leader. If only we had more leaders like that. I hope he doesn't give into cynicism as he matures.
 
  • #47
OmCheeto
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The kid in this video made me want to cry - but in a good way o:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I
:smile:
D@mn, that kid is great! I see a future president or world leader. If only we had more leaders like that. I hope he doesn't give into cynicism as he matures.
It is refreshing to see someone so young being so aware of what is going on.

Here's another one, with a simpler message:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG1x9Zz_oGo​

It sounded like a 50:1 honk to no-honk ratio, with someone really agreeing with this kid around 1:53. :tongue2:

AGAINST THE BROTHERS?
HONK YOUR HORN!

...
His name is Omar, he’s still in high school, he’s passionate about the Egyptian revolution and disappointed with its outcome -- specifically since the Muslim Brotherhood took power and failed to deliver on their promises of dignity, social justice, and a proper compensation for the revolution’s martyrs.

On april 10th, 2013, he decided to leave his “utra-revolutionaries” Facebook group, and try some more on-the-ground action. So he wrote “If you’re against the Brotherhood, honk your horn!” on a sign and went on to demonstrate, alone, in Cairo’s Madinat Nasr neighborhood.

“Except one or two bearded sheikhs, no one failed to honk!”, he says
Though my Arabic is so bad, for all I know, his sign might say; "Honk if you like ice cream!"
Can anyone read Arabic?

:redface:
 
  • #48
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:



Though my Arabic is so bad, for all I know, his sign might say; "Honk if you like ice cream!"
Can anyone read Arabic?

:
I am native in (Egyptian) Arabic. The sign does literally say: If you're against the brotherhood, hit your horn.
 

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