Eigenvalue/vector and similar matrices

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a matrix B such that B^2 equals a given 3x3 matrix A, which is lower triangular. The participants explore concepts related to eigenvalues and eigenvectors, as well as the properties of similar matrices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to express B in terms of the eigenvalues and eigenvectors of A, questioning the correctness of their calculations regarding eigenvectors and the implications of the triangular structure of A.
  • Some participants question the assumptions made about the eigenvectors, particularly regarding the conditions derived from the rows of the matrix A - λI.
  • Others suggest reconsidering the implications of the triangular matrix properties on the diagonal elements when squaring the matrix.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing hints and corrections to the original poster's reasoning. There is a recognition of potential misunderstandings regarding the eigenvector calculations, and some guidance has been offered to clarify these points. The discussion is ongoing, with multiple interpretations being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted concern about the original poster's calculations, particularly regarding the eigenvalues and eigenvectors, as well as the implications of the matrix's triangular form. The discussion reflects a learning process where assumptions and definitions are being scrutinized.

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Homework Statement


Find a matrix B such that B^2 = A

A = 3x3 =

9 -5 3
0 4 3
0 0 1

Homework Equations



B^2 = A

A = XDX^(-1) (similar matrices rule)

also used to find eigenvectors: A - λI

The Attempt at a Solution



Thoughts: If A = XDX^(-1), then B^2 = XDX(-1), and B = X * D^(1/2) * X^-1
So, if I could find D and X for A, I could find B. D = diagonal matrix where the diagonal elements are the eigenvalues of A, and A is lower triangular, so it's eigenvalues are:

λ1 = 9, λ2 = 4, λ3 = 1,

so D = 3x3 =

9 0 0
0 4 0
0 0 1

To find X, I need the eigenvectors:

A-9I =
0 -5 3
0 -5 3
0 0 -8
so (-5)v2 + (3)v3 = 0, or v2 = (3/5)v3
and the eigenvector (representative) = [0 1 3/5]^T

I suspect there is something wrong here because my bottom row in A-9I isn't all 0 and I think it is supposed to be... I don't know what I did wrong though.

For the other eigenvalues, I got eigenvectors that were:

λ2 = 4,
[1 1 0]^T

λ3 = 1
[1 1 -1]

X = 3x3 =

0 1 1
1 1 1
(3/5) 0 -1

X^-1 =
-1 1 0
(8/5) (-3/5) 1
(-3/5) (3/5) -1

To get D^(1/2) I square-rooted the diagonal elements:
3 0 0
0 2 0
0 0 1

Then find X * D^(1/2) * X^-1, which = B, but when I square B, it doesn't = A...
Any input would be great! Thanks
 
Last edited:
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A_lilah said:
Find a matrix B such that B^2 = A

A = 3x3 =

9 -5 3
0 4 3
0 0 1

Hi A_lilah! :smile:

Hint: is the square of a triangular matrix triangular?

if so, what happens to the diagonal elements? :wink:
 
A_lilah said:

Homework Statement


Find a matrix B such that B^2 = A

A = 3x3 =

9 -5 3
0 4 3
0 0 1

Homework Equations



B^2 = A

A = XDX^(-1) (similar matrices rule)

also used to find eigenvectors: A - λI

The Attempt at a Solution



Thoughts: If A = XDX^(-1), then B^2 = XDX(-1), and B = X * D^(1/2) * X^-1
So, if I could find D and X for A, I could find B. D = diagonal matrix where the diagonal elements are the eigenvalues of A, and A is lower triangular, so it's eigenvalues are:

λ1 = 9, λ2 = 4, λ3 = 1,

so D = 3x3 =

9 0 0
0 4 0
0 0 1

To find X, I need the eigenvectors:

A-9I =
0 -5 3
0 -5 3
0 0 -8
so (-5)v2 + (3)v3 = 0, or v2 = (3/5)v3
and the eigenvector (representative) = [0 1 3/5]^T
You've completely ignored the third row: -8v3= 0 so v3= 0. Yes, the second row then gives v2= (3/5)v3 and since v3= 0, v2= 0. Now the important point: the fact that the first column is 0 does NOT mean that v1= 0! It says there is NO CONDITION on v1. With v2= v3= 0, 0v1-5v2+ 3v3= 0, 0v1- 5v2+ 3v3= 0, and 0v1+ 0v2- 8v3= 0 are true for ALL VALUES of v3: [1, 0, 0]^T is an eigenvector.

I suspect there is something wrong here because my bottom row in A-9I isn't all 0 and I think it is supposed to be... I don't know what I did wrong though.

For the other eigenvalues, I got eigenvectors that were:

λ2 = 4,
[1 1 0]^T
yes, this is correct.

λ3 = 1
[1 1 -1]
Did you check it?
\left[\begin{array}{ccc}9 & -5 & 3 \\ 0 & 4 & 3 \\ 0 & 0 & 1\end{array}\right]\left[\begin{array}{c}1 \\ 1 \\ 1\end{array}\right]= \left[\begin{array}{c} 7 \\ 7 \\ 1\end{array}\right]
No, that is not [1 1 -1]^T again.

For eigenvalue 1, you get the three equations 8v1- 5v2+ 3v3= 0, 3v2+ 3v3= 0, and 0= 0. The last equations says that v3 can be anything. From the second equation, 3v2= -3v3 so v2= -v3 and, putting that into the first equation, 8v1+ 5v3+ 3v3= 0, v1= -v3. You can write down the eigenvector corresponding to eigenvalue 1 from that.

X = 3x3 =

0 1 1
1 1 1
(3/5) 0 -1

X^-1 =
-1 1 0
(8/5) (-3/5) 1
(-3/5) (3/5) -1

To get D^(1/2) I square-rooted the diagonal elements:
3 0 0
0 2 0
0 0 1

Then find X * D^(1/2) * X^-1, which = B, but when I square B, it doesn't = A...
Any input would be great! Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you both so much! Of course I should have looked at the other rows ~ silly of me. Thanks again :)
 

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