Einstein Tensor; super simple derivation; where did I go wrong?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the Einstein tensor and the identification of potential errors in the mathematical steps involved. Participants explore the implications of the covariant and contravariant metrics, the Bianchi Identity, and the correct interpretation of indices in tensor equations. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical clarification related to general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant begins with a derivation involving the covariant derivative of the Ricci tensor and questions where they went wrong.
  • Another participant points out an apparent mistake in inserting the multiplicative identity and mentions the divergence-free nature of the Einstein tensor arising from the Bianchi Identity.
  • Several participants reference Professor Lenard Susskind's statements regarding the relationship between the covariant and contravariant metrics, with some asserting that his claims contain errors.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of having free indices versus no free indices in tensor equations, with some participants emphasizing the importance of correct notation.
  • Concerns are raised about the credibility of established physicists when errors are perceived in their teachings.
  • Participants highlight the potential for simple errors in notation and the importance of not overloading indices in tensor calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the correctness of Professor Susskind's statements, with some asserting that he made a notational error while others defend his position. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the interpretation of the tensor equations and the implications of the errors identified.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the dimensionality of the manifold and the definitions of the metrics involved. The participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the derivations or the interpretations of Susskind's statements.

nobraner
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Start with

\nabla_{μ}R^{\mu\nu}=\nabla_{μ}R^{\mu\nu}

insert the multiplicative identity, expressed as the product of the covariant and contravariant metric

\nabla_{μ}R^{\mu\nu}=\nabla_{μ}(g^{\mu \nu}g_{\mu\nu})R^{\mu\nu}

contract the indices of the Ricci Tensor, to get

\nabla_{μ}R^{\mu\nu}=\nabla_{μ}g^{\mu\nu}R

but the general theory tells us that

\nabla_{μ}R^{\mu\nu}=\frac{1}{2} \nabla_{μ}g^{\mu\nu}R

Where have I gone wrong?
 
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Er, g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=4, so it appears you inserted 4 into the right hand side on the second line. You are also seriously overloading your indices.

The divergence free nature of the Einstein tensor arises from the Bianchi Identity.
 
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Professor Lenard Susskind explicitly states in his YouTube videos that

g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=\delta^{\mu}_{\nu}

The product of the covariant and contravariant metric is the kroniker delta (the multiplicative identity matrix). Although, he does say somewhere that if you have

\delta^{a}_{\nu} and \delta^{\nu}_{b}

and you identify a with b as

\delta^{a}_{\nu}\delta^{\nu}_{a}=\delta^{\nu}_{\nu}

Then you are summing over a which is simply the sum of the 1's in the diagonal of the identity matrix and that gives you 4.
 
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nobraner said:
Professor Lenard Susskind explicitly states in his YouTube videos that

g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=\delta^{\mu}_{\nu}

This relation is wrong.

g^{\mu\nu} g_{\mu\rho} = \delta^\nu_\rho

then, if we take \nu = \rho we obtain:

g^{\mu\nu} g_{\mu\nu} = \delta^\nu_\nu

but the last term is the trace of Kronecker delta which is four if dim(M) = 4
 
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If as you say, Professor Susskind is wrong, then I feel betrayed that a physicist of his stature would teach error.
 
nobraner said:
If as you say, Professor Susskind is wrong, then I feel betrayed that a physicist of his stature would teach error.

Why? Isn't he human? :D

Anyway, relation above hasn't free indices:

g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}

so it has to a scalar. Indeed it is dimension of manifold.

Sorry for my poor english :D
 
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nobraner said:
Professor Lenard Susskind explicitly states in his YouTube videos that

g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=\delta^{\mu}_{\nu}
In that case he made a notational error. An equation with no free indices on the right, but free indices on the left could never be right.
 
It's very easy to make such a simple error, especially if you are teaching a class.

Also, don't overload your indices, that's another very important point. If you already see mu's and nu's and then you introduce another set of mu's and nu's and you sum over them, for example, you are bound to make errors.
 
nobraner said:
Professor Lenard Susskind explicitly states in his YouTube videos that

g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=\delta^{\mu}_{\nu}

I think he meant g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=\delta^{\mu}_{\mu} and this is just trace of Identity matrix, and equals n, where n is dimension of Manifold (usually 4).
 

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