News Election Dilemma: Should We Postpone the Vote?

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Three days before the election, Iraqi insurgents captured six Americans and threatened to behead them if George W. Bush or John Kerry was re-elected, leading to a heated debate about whether to postpone the elections. Participants expressed conflicting views on the implications of giving in to terrorist demands versus maintaining the election schedule. Some argued that postponing elections would set a dangerous precedent, allowing terrorists to influence democratic processes, while others felt that the lives of hostages should take precedence over political considerations. The discussion highlighted historical contexts, such as past hostage situations and the potential for government overreach in delaying elections. Concerns were raised about the psychological impact on voters and the risk of allowing a small group of terrorists to dictate electoral outcomes. Ultimately, the consensus leaned towards holding the elections as scheduled, emphasizing the importance of not letting terrorism dictate political decisions, despite the moral complexities involved.
  • #31
Gokul43201 said:
Here's the problem : JW said, the Election should be postponed by a maximum of 2 weeks, by which tiume the people should be able to rationalize their decisions.

How does this work ? What "force" makes the people go back to their original decisions after 2 weeks ? If they don't go back to their original decisions, that means their new decisions are influenced by the terror event.
Not just that, but what if there's one occasion of a hostage taking on Oct 30, then we get the 2 week delay, but on Nov 10, there's another hostage taking trying to sway the election, then again by a different group on Nov 12. Would we just hold the elections on Nov 14 regardless of the new hostages, or would we keep delaying it by 2 week incraments?
 
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  • #32
JohnDubYa said:
Okay, fine. But you missed the entire point: That threats against your life could sway the votes. It isn't just about the hostages. You don't see a problem with (say) five terrorists using extortion to change a US election?

I do not think that it is a question of giving power to the terrorists or giving it to the government. If we hold the ellection as scheduled, then it may be influenced by the terrorists, but if we allow their act of hostage-taking to delay the ellection, then it definitely is. We can let them have a power that is a matter of opinion, wherein they might claim that they have effected the ellection, and someone else could say that they didn't, or let them have the undisputable power of postponing the ellection. In this latter case, the proof that they controlled the ellection would be beyond refute.

As a sidenote, I think that such a situation would garner votes for the candidate being prohibitted by the terrorists (using the hypothetical situation from the OP, Bush). Not only does the American government have a policy of not negotiating with terrorists, but the American people, as individuals, do not respond well to terrorist threats. Some who are undecided will choose Bush just to send the Terrorists the message, "we will not be intimidated". Others will take the kidnap and demand as proof that the candidate is effective against terrorists, or they would not fear his ellection. In addition to this, the incident will cause a hightened awareness of terrorism, which allways goes in favor of the Republican candidate.
 
  • #33
One possible solution is to hold the elections, knowing the results of the election will not be released until the hostage situation is resolved or until right before the deadline for choosing electors for the electoral college (I think the electoral college meets Dec 13 this year).

One side benefit is the justification for banning polling at election sites and people on the West coast casting their votes having no idea how voting has gone on the East coast.

Oh, but how to handle the recounts when you can't even release the fact that a recount is needed.

Edit: And what do the candidates do while awaiting the results? Actually, kind of an interesting scenario.
 
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  • #34
If we hold the ellection as scheduled, then it may be influenced by the terrorists, but if we allow their act of hostage-taking to delay the ellection, then it definitely is.

I don't think there is any doubt that their actions would influence the election, one way or the other. Given a sample population, you will always find a certain percentage of people who are influenced in one way or the other.

Suppose that we go ahead and hold the elections, and the terrorist threats appear to have altered the outcome. (For example, a certain percentage of people admit that they changed their vote so that twenty people were not killed.) Would you be willing to consider a postponement the next time this incident occurs?
 
  • #35
BobG, your idea would allow both parties suffiicient time to claim shenanigans before the results are announced. I don't think that's a good idea.
 
  • #36
Two guys complaining ... or 1 presidential election, 11 gubernatorial elections, 34 senate elections, 435 house of representatives elections, plus hundreds of local elections delayed.

While the presidential election may be the most important of the 481 federal government elections and who knows how many local elections, dealing with how to safeguard the presidential election results until they can be released and with the complaints that would be sure to follow would still be preferable.

And dealing with recounts wouldn't necessarily be insurmountable either. The fact that a state was close enough to require a recount wouldn't reveal the results. It would definitely be an interesting situation for both parties to have to come to some sort of agreement on how the recount should be resolved with no clue as to who won the first tally.
 
  • #37
Bob, I just think you are overlooking the psychology of a delay. During the time before the results are announced both sides develop paranoia that the other side is pulling strings to swing the counts their way. I think the votes need to be counted and announced as soon as possible.
 
  • #38
DubYa has a point, it would be a new way of manipulating the ballets, this should not be allowed. And I agree they should be announced as soon as possible.
 
  • #39
JohnDubYa said:
Bob, I just think you are overlooking the psychology of a delay. During the time before the results are announced both sides develop paranoia that the other side is pulling strings to swing the counts their way. I think the votes need to be counted and announced as soon as possible.

Yes, but the three choices are:

1) Delays in the election with either a) no definite end in sight or b) the possibility of conducting the election under the same conditions as if you held them at their originally scheduled date.

2) Hold the elections as scheduled, but dilute the impact of the terrorists threat by delaying the release of the results.

3) Hold the elections using standard procedure. Rely on voters to ignore the impact their vote may have on the hostages' lives and vote solely based on their opinions of the candidates.

Diluting the threat is going to be the most you get out option 2. People notoriously have trouble making decisions based on unknown variables - "Do I vote for Kerry just in case they don't resolve the crisis by the deadline? Then my vote was a waste if they do resolve the crisis. Do I vote for Bush and hope they do resolve the crisis? What if they don't?" There's too many variables and uncertainties to make a choice based solely on the hostages - it's easier to vote the way you originally intended and put the responsibility for rescuing the hostages on someone else. It doesn't entirely eliminate the effect of the crisis, but it makes the effect very, very low.

And, of course, the votes are counted immediately. All the elections, local, state, and federal, are conducted on the same ballot. It's harder not to count them than to count them. State election officials know the result, can make recount decisions based on them, but can't release the results. Florida officials know the results in Florida, Oregon officials know the results in Oregon, Oklahoma officials know the results in Oklahoma. No one knows the overall totals.

Will the results leak out? If you want to preserve the ability to conduct elections in similar situations in the future, you have to consider leaking the results the equivalent of leaking the plans for D-Day - it's tantamount to treason.

Will they leak out anyway? Personally, I think people take their duties seriously enough that there's less than a 50% chance. That's not exactly great, but you don't need a 100% success rate to maintain credibility. Leaked results have to be kept to 2 or 3 states at a maximum in order to maintain the credibility of re-using this option in the future. Individuals who leak results need to be discovered quickly and the punishment has to be similar to that for treason (the death penalty would be overly extreme, but at least conceivable if it results in the immediate death of the hostages). Media that publish the leaks are fined into bankruptcy (the fine depends upon the size of the market the newspaper or television station/network serves). Television/radio stations publishing the leaks immediately have their FCC license revoked - newspapers have their equipment impounded. Obviously, not all judges will refrain from granting a restraining order, but it doesn't take that high of a percentage of denied restraining orders to raise the risk for a television network or newspaper publisher to unacceptable levels (considering the circumstances, I think judges would be more likely to see this as the equivalent of publishing the D-Day plans than as a First Amendment issue).

Are you so stuck in the past that you've never heard of the Internet? Who first blew CBS's Bush story out of the water? If you were transmitting a radio signal, and someone else were transmitting on the same frequency, neither of you would have much success in getting your message through. The Internet is already a noisy place. Extra noise intentionally injected into the system would make actual leaks indistinguishable from the overall noise level. To be honest, making 'noise' available to major newspapers and television networks would also make actual leaks worthless, but that would be entrapment (how could the media possibly resist?)
 
  • #40
Will they leak out anyway? Personally, I think people take their duties seriously enough that there's less than a 50% chance.

The results won't leak out, but misinformation will. And when the actual amounts are announced, people will think someone has monkeyed with the numbers.

I wish it would work because I like your plan. And we do have absentee ballots, so your plan has worked on a small scale. So who knows?
 

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