Electromagnetic stress-energy formula in wikpedia

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electromagnetic stress-energy tensor formula as presented on Wikipedia. Participants analyze the (0,0) component of the tensor, which is expected to represent electromagnetic energy density. The conversation includes mathematical evaluations, potential errors in interpretation, and the implications of different sign conventions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation for the electromagnetic stress-energy tensor and questions whether the (0,0) component corresponds to the expected energy density of ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}##, noting a discrepancy in their calculations.
  • Another participant suggests that the energy density cannot be derived from the squared terms of the Faraday tensor and questions the correctness of the initial claim.
  • Several participants express confusion over the mathematical expressions and the Wikipedia article, with some stating they do not see any obvious mistakes in the source material.
  • A participant provides a script using Maxima to compute the elements of the stress-energy tensor, asserting that it confirms the expected relationship.
  • Another participant notes a correction in the script that was initially miscalculating the tensor components, leading to a revised understanding of the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the formula or the calculations. There are competing interpretations of the tensor's components and their implications for energy density.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the mathematical steps and the definitions used in the calculations. The discussion highlights the dependence on sign conventions and the interpretation of tensor components.

olgerm
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I found equion ##T^{\mu\nu} = \frac{1}{\mu_0} \left[ F^{\mu \alpha}F^\nu{}_{\alpha} - \frac{1}{4} \eta^{\mu\nu}F_{\alpha\beta} F^{\alpha\beta}\right] \,.## from wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_stress–energy_tensor .

it's (0,0) component should be electromagnetic energy density which is ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}##.
But by replacing ##\mu## and ##\nu## with 0 I get
energy density=##T^{0 0}=\sum_{a=0}^D(\eta^{aa}*( (F^{0 a})^2+\frac{1}{4} *\sum_{b=0}^D(\eta^{bb}(F^{ab})^2)))=\sum_{a=0}^D(\eta^{aa}*( (F^{0 a})^2+\frac{1}{4} *\sum_{b=0}^D(\eta^{bb}(F^{ab})^2)))=E^2+\frac{B^2}{2}\neq\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}##
Is it my mistake or is the formula wrong?
i am using sign convention where ##\eta^{00}=-1##
 
Last edited:
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mitochan said:
Hi.
I just look through and think ##E## cannot come from ##F^2## s . Is it ##E^2##?
yes, edited it now.
 
Last edited:
I can't make sense of your formulae, but I don't see any obvious mistake in the Wikipedia article.
 
vanhees71 said:
I can't make sense of your formulae, but I don't see any obvious mistake in the Wikipedia article.
Can you check whether wikipedia equation equals to ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}## if you do not understand my equations?
 
olgerm said:
Can you check whether wikipedia equation equals to ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}## if you do not understand my equations?
It does. If you download Maxima, a free symbolic maths package, the batch file below will generate all the elements of T if you wish to check.
Code:
/* Define the metric */
eta:matrix([-1,0,0,0],[0,1,0,0],[0,0,1,0],[0,0,0,1]);

/* Define the Faraday tensor with upper indices and generate */
/* mixed and lower index versions                            */
uF:matrix([0,-Ex,-Ey,-Ez],[Ex,0,-Bz,By],[Ey,Bz,0,-Bx],[Ez,-By,Bx,0]);
mF:uF.eta;
lF:eta.uF.eta;

/* Contract the Faraday tensor with itself to get an invariant, F */
F:0;
for alpha:1 thru 4 do block (
  for beta:1 thru 4 do block (
    F:F+uF[alpha,beta]*lF[alpha,beta]
  )
);

/* Calculate the stress-energy tensor */
T:-(1/4)*eta*F;
for mu:1 thru 4 do block (
  for nu:1 thru 4 do block (
    for alpha:1 thru 4 do block (
      T[mu,nu]:T[mu,nu]+uF[mu,alpha]*mF[nu,alpha]
    )
  )
);

/* Display the t-t element of T */
ratsimp(T[1,1]);
Edit: note that the eta after the uF in both lines 7 and 8 should strictly be transpose(eta), but since the metric is always symmetric this has no effect.
 
Last edited:
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Ibix said:
It does. If you download Maxima, a free symbolic maths package, the batch file below will generate all the elements of T if you wish to check.
It seams to me that according to that script T[1,1]=(Bx^2+By^2+Bz^2+2*Ex^2+2*Ey^2+2*Ez^2)/2=##E^2+\frac{B ^2}{2}##, but that should be ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}##. if the formula were correct.
Does it use the same equation that is on my 1. post to generate the matrix?
 
olgerm said:
It seams to me that according to that script T[1,1]=(Bx^2+By^2+Bz^2+2*Ex^2+2*Ey^2+2*Ez^2)/2=##E^2+\frac{B ^2}{2}##, but that should be ##\frac{E^2+B^2}{2}##. if the formula were correct.
That's because I somehow posted an incorrect version that calculated ##F_{\mu\nu}## as ##\eta_{\mu\rho}F^{\rho\nu}## instead of ##\eta_{\mu\rho}\eta_{\nu\sigma}F^{\rho\sigma}## (i.e. I calculated the mixed tensor and used it as the lower tensor). Not sure how I managed that. I've corrected the script above (line 8 is the only change) and it gets the correct answer now.
 
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