Electron/Proton Electric Charge Equality Expected?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equality of electric charge between the electron and proton, exploring its implications within the Standard Model (SM) and Lambda-CDM models. Participants examine the concept of anomaly cancellation and its relevance to charge identity, as well as the potential consequences of deviations from this equality for atomic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire whether the SM and Lambda-CDM models predict that the electron's charge is equal in magnitude to that of the proton, questioning the significance of this fine-tuning.
  • One participant asserts that the equality of charge is necessary for anomaly cancellation within the SM, suggesting that without it, the theory would not function properly.
  • Another participant speculates on the implications of this fine-tuning being altered, suggesting that it could lead to fundamentally different atomic structures or even the absence of atoms.
  • A participant seeks a lay analogy for the concept of anomaly cancellation, questioning whether such analogies can adequately capture the phenomenon.
  • There is a discussion about whether anomaly cancellation determines the identity of charge between the electron and proton while leaving the strength of the electromagnetic charge as a free parameter.
  • One participant emphasizes that without anomaly cancellation, calculations yield nonsensical results, indicating a fundamental issue with the theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of charge equality and the nature of anomaly cancellation. While some agree on its necessity for the SM, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader consequences of potential deviations from charge equality.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the gauge couplings for the electromagnetic-weak interaction are among the values that must be manually set in the SM, indicating a complexity in understanding the relationship between charge identity and interaction strength.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying particle physics, the Standard Model, and concepts related to charge and anomaly cancellation.

Islam Hassan
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Do the SM and Lambda-CDM lepton-era models predict that the electron’s isolated electric charge be equal in magnitude (to 12 significant figures) to that of the proton which is a composite particle?

What makes that this identity in electric charge magnitude is so exquisitely ‘fine-tuned’?

What would be the implications if this fine-tuning were off by a couple of orders of magnitude for the physics of the atom?IH
 
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It is necessary for anomaly cancellation. The SM wouldn't make sense without it.
Islam Hassan said:
What would be the implications if this fine-tuning were off by a couple of orders of magnitude for the physics of the atom?
It is not fine tuning as it is not accidental. Apart from that: The universe would look completely different, but how depends on the physics that you have to rewrite from scratch. Will the electron to proton number ratio change accordingly? You might get huge atoms, or no atoms at all.
 
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Thanks, I’m trying to understand the concept of anomaly cancellation from wiki and other sources...

One simple question though...what would be the ‘least bad’ lay analogy of what anomaly cancellation consists of?...or is this, like so many other phenomena, not susceptible to analogy?...
 
Another question of interpretation...from this wiki page, I understand that the gauge couplings for the electromagnetic-weak interaction figure among the 19 values that must be manually set in the SM.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model#Construction_of_the_Standard_Model_Lagrangian

Does this mean that anomaly cancellation determines identity of charge between electron and proton but does not determine the strength of the related EM charge?IH
 
Without anomaly cancellation you get all sorts of nonsense in calculations, which means your theory doesn’t work - but I‘m not an expert, I work on the experimental side.

Anomaly cancellation just requires them to be the same in magnitude, right. The absolute value of it (or, equivalently, the coupling constant of the electromagnetic interaction - the fine structure constant) is a free parameter.
 

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