Electronic structure of the atoms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electronic structure of atoms, specifically addressing the configuration of electrons in orbitals and the interpretation of spectral lines for helium. Participants explore the relationship between different types of orbitals, energy levels, and spectral transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the number of p orbitals associated with helium, questioning why there are 10 listed instead of the expected six.
  • Another participant suggests considering the Aufbau principle as a potential explanation for the electron configuration.
  • A later reply clarifies that the configuration may involve transitions from multiple p orbitals (2p, 3p, 4p, etc.) to the 1s orbital, rather than being limited to just the six 2p orbitals.
  • One participant proposes that the energy levels of the p orbitals could be relative to one another in a quantized manner, suggesting a relationship where each level corresponds to an integral multiple of energy.
  • Another participant challenges this idea by referencing the Rydberg formula and questioning whether the energy transitions between different n levels are consistent with the proposed relationships.
  • A subsequent reply agrees that the energies of the n levels follow an E/n^2 relationship, questioning if the same pattern applies to the p orbitals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the spectral lines or the energy relationships between the orbitals, indicating that multiple competing views remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of energy levels and electron transitions, which may depend on specific definitions and interpretations of quantum mechanics. There are unresolved questions regarding the classification of spectral lines and the implications of the Rydberg formula.

Sean Torrebadel
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I'm a little confused about something very simple. From a chemistry perspective I am told about how many electrons fit into each type of orbital. For instance, 1s and 2s can only have two each, the 2p orbitals total 6. It is composed of the Px, Py, and Pz and only two can be in each set, while the exclusion principle applies.

When I look at the spectrum of He I in the Nist lines database

http://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/ASD/lines_form.html

where you enter He I and then 10 -100000 I get a series of wavelengths at the beginning of the data beginning with 584 Angstroms. This uninterupted series represents that transition of electrons from the 2s2p orbitals to the 1s. The problem that I am having is understanding why there are 10 p orbitals listed. Shouldn't there be only six.

To further complicate the problem I have an equation that reproduces this series mathematically, and it includes 5 more lines in the same sequence, which are not even classified by the Nist, but recorded there.

Am I to suppose that there are 15p? What is going on here?
 
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Have you tried the Aufbau-priciple?
 
Okay, I think I get it now. The configuration is not from say the six different 2p orbitals which are essentially degenerate, but from the 2p, 3p, 4p, 5p, 6p, 7p etc to the 1s.
 
Would it be true to say that the 2p, 3p, 4p, 5p, and so forth are all quantum relative to one another. I mean are they suppose to be an integral amount of some energy, E, so that the 2p is 2E, the 3p is 3E, the 4p is 4E?
 
Are you sure? Look at the simple Rydberg type atom. Look at the transition of n=3 to 1 and compare that with n=2 to 1. Is one a multiple of the other?

Zz.
 
No, your right, the energies of the n=1, n=2, n=3, n=4, n=5, etc are all E/n^2. Where E is the ionization energy. Would it be true then that the 2p, 3p, 4p, 5p etc should follow suit? Thanks Zap
 

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