Electrons in antinodes of orbitals

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    Electrons Orbitals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of electrons in atomic orbitals, specifically considering the idea of electrons gathering at antinodes as described by spherical harmonics in the context of the Schrödinger wave equation. Participants explore potential applications and implications of this concept, as well as clarifying the terminology and underlying physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that if electrons could gather at antinodes, there might be interesting applications or new areas for research.
  • Several participants express confusion about the term "antinodes," indicating a lack of familiarity with the concept.
  • Some participants clarify that spherical harmonics relate to spherical symmetry and are not foundational to the mathematics of the Schrödinger equation, but rather special solutions within that context.
  • Another participant reflects on the nature of electrons, stating that they can be described as quantum mechanical waves rather than point-like particles confined to nodal regions.
  • One participant argues that the wavefunction represents the electron itself, and gathering electrons at antinodes is conceptually flawed, as altering the wavefunction would change its characteristics.
  • A participant critiques others for expressing confusion without contributing further insights, suggesting that it is unhelpful to simply state a lack of understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the understanding of antinodes or their implications for electron behavior. Multiple viewpoints and levels of understanding are present, leading to a contested discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with the terminology and concepts, indicating potential gaps in understanding. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the relationship between wavefunctions and electron behavior, which remains unresolved.

kakarot1905
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Hi

Thinking of the structure of an atom in terms of spherical harmonics; the mathematics of which is the base of Schrödinger's wave equation.

If its possible to make the electrons gather at the antinodes, what are the possible applications/uses of this? (Simply a new area for research? or perhaps something greater?)

Please share any thoughts on what you might find interesting in an 'antinode' atom?

Thanks
Kakarot1905
 
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1) I've never heard the word antinode. What is that supposed to be?
2) Spherical harmonics are related to problems with spherical symmetry and laplace differential operators. The only thing they have to do with the Schrödinger equation is that they are often seen in this context because the atom problem has spherical symmetry. They are certainly not be basis of any mathematics, merely some special solutions.
 
cgk said:
1) I've never heard the word antinode. What is that supposed to be?
2) Spherical harmonics are related to problems with spherical symmetry and laplace differential operators. The only thing they have to do with the Schrödinger equation is that they are often seen in this context because the atom problem has spherical symmetry. They are certainly not be basis of any mathematics, merely some special solutions.

I was assuming that atomic orbitals to be some kind of spherical waves..

Nodes and Antinodes:
[URL]http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/waves/h4.gif[/URL]
 
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cgk said:
1) I've never heard the word antinode. What is that supposed to be?
2) Spherical harmonics are related to problems with spherical symmetry and laplace differential operators. The only thing they have to do with the Schrödinger equation is that they are often seen in this context because the atom problem has spherical symmetry. They are certainly not be basis of any mathematics, merely some special solutions.

This article might help what I am trying to describe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node_(physics)"

//Read the chemistry bit
 
Last edited by a moderator:
kakarot1905 said:
This article might help what I am trying to describe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Node_(physics)"

//Read the chemistry bit

I realized that electrons can be described as quantum mechanical waves...
I was assuming that electrons are point-like particles stuck in the nodal region of some kind of force field created by the nucleus - I was wrong.
 
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I think you are misunderstanding what an electron is. The wavefunction is the electron. The antinodes are part of the electron. That's like asking, "how do I gather an oscillating rope at its antinodes?" or "How do I stand in my own lap?" If you where to gather the rope to the point in space where there was an antinode, it would not be an antinode anymore. You can alter an electron's wavefunction so that it bunches up more at certain points in space, for instance by applying magnetic fields, but the electron becomes a new wavefunction shape with new nodes, etc.
 
cgk said:
1) I've never heard the word antinode. What is that supposed to be?
2) Spherical harmonics are related to problems with spherical symmetry and laplace differential operators. The only thing they have to do with the Schrödinger equation is that they are often seen in this context because the atom problem has spherical symmetry. They are certainly not be basis of any mathematics, merely some special solutions.

Not to be rude, but perhaps if you don't know a word, let someone else answer who does, instead of just posting "I don't know" which is not very helpful.:smile:

Cheers!
- Chris
 

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