Elementary math that professors cant solve

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter killerinstinct
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Elementary Professors
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding ways to represent the number 20 using only three 9's and elementary mathematical operations. Participants explore various mathematical expressions, including those involving different bases, factorials, and square roots, while debating the classification of these methods as "elementary math."

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose using the expression 9 + 9/9 = 20 in base 5.
  • Others suggest alternative expressions such as (9 + 9)/0.9 = 20 and 9 * 9 - 9 = 20 in various bases.
  • There is a contention regarding whether using bases constitutes elementary math, with some arguing it does not.
  • A participant mentions that the original problem implies the number 20 should be interpreted in base 10.
  • Several participants share their own solutions and variations, including factorials and square roots, to achieve the number 20.
  • Discussion includes a related theme of using four 4's to represent numbers, with participants sharing their findings and methods.
  • Some participants express confusion or curiosity about the mathematical validity of certain expressions and operations involving zero and exponents.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on what constitutes elementary math, particularly regarding the use of bases and factorials. Multiple competing views remain on the validity of various proposed solutions and interpretations of the original problem.

Contextual Notes

Some expressions rely on specific interpretations of mathematical operations and definitions, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the classification of certain mathematical concepts as elementary.

  • #31
How bout this..

Get -1 using 0,0,0 :wink:

Oh and this is mathematically possible without using any tricks..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #32
ExecNight said:
Get -1 using 0,0,0

0 + 0 - 0!

Or to get 6:

(0! + 0! + 0!)!
 
  • #33
0 - 0^0
is this qualified?
 
  • #34
<br /> -\cos{0} - 0 + 0<br />

and mm...

<br /> - ( \sin ^2 0 + \cos ^2 0 ) + 0<br />
 
  • #35
futb0l said:
0 - 0^0
is this qualified?
Strictly speaking 0^0 is not defined. As:

x^0 = \left( x^1 \right) \left( x^{-1} \right)

Therefore:

x^0 = \frac{x}{x}

Which means x^0 = 1 when x \neq 0
 
  • #36
Or for those whose tastes run to notation sadism:

- \lim_{0\rightarrow0} 0!​
 
Last edited:
  • #37
Zurtex said:
Strictly speaking 0^0 is not defined. As:

x^0 = \left( x^1 \right) \left( x^{-1} \right)

Therefore:

x^0 = \frac{x}{x}

Which means x^0 = 1 when x \neq 0

mmm.. if you do 0^1 in google, it will come up as 1.
and ... http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.0.to.0.power.html

so i don't think
x^0 = 1 when x \neq 0
is true.
 
  • #38
there should be a rule that says when any number is to the power of 0 it will be equal to 1.
 
  • #39
Most of em are true solutions..

Now the funny thing here is we are getting something from noting..

How come we can get 1 from 0 by using only 0? That always makes my head iching...
 
  • #41
Hi
First: Sorry if my english isn´t correct or couldn´t be understand, but i´m trying to.

Without to resume the discussion, if factorial and bases are elemental math, i´m thinking i´ve found a solution for the problem down this text for all positive and negative real numbers and the 0:
\left( \left( x^2 \right) ^0 + \left( x^2 \right) ^0 + \left( x^2 \right) ^0 \right) ! =6


Gunni said:
There's another fun variation on this theme where you line up all the numbers from one to nine in threes and are supposed to make them add up to six by adding only plus, minus, division, multiplication, root and power signs (whole powers and roots, no logs!). You can also use ( and ) (forgot what they're called).

Like this:
Code:
1   1   1 = 6
2   2   2 = 6
3   3   3 = 6
4   4   4 = 6
5   5   5 = 6
6   6   6 = 6
7   7   7 = 6
8   8   8 = 6
9   9   9 = 6

For example (I hope I'm not ruining anything for anyone here :wink:):
6 + 6 - 6 = 6

Have fun.
 
  • #42
NoNose said:
Hi
First: Sorry if my english isn´t correct or couldn´t be understand, but i´m trying to.

Without to resume the discussion, if factorial and bases are elemental math, i´m thinking i´ve found a solution for the problem down this text for all positive and negative real numbers and the 0:
\left( \left( x^2 \right) ^0 + \left( x^2 \right) ^0 + \left( x^2 \right) ^0 \right) ! =6

I like that :smile:, but using the square function is kind of using a 2 really (where as the square root actually has a symbol). So perhaps before anyone complains about this it could be easily fixed as:

\left( |x|^0 + |x|^0 + |x|^0 \right) ! = 6

For x \neq 0
 
  • #43
Njorl said:
10 (44-4)/4

I had to use one "44". Is there a way to get 10 without resorting to this?

Njorl

4 * 4 - 4! / 4 works
 
  • #44
arildno said:
9+\frac{9}{9}=20_{(base 5)}

I rarely do math for fun so my so I don't know much math indepth. From what I know base 2 or binary numbers are like this

01 this means that 0*(2^1)+1*(2^0)=1

So in base 5 it would be

0,1,2,3,4 = 0*(5^4)+1*(5^3)+2*(5^2)+3*(5^1)+4*(5^0)=194

how do you get 9 in base 5? Is it a different base system or something?


edit--------------

Oh I think I know

9 =14
14/14=1
14+1=20
right?
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
350
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K