EM radiation creation within stars

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the creation of electromagnetic (EM) radiation within stars, particularly focusing on the hydrogen fusion process and how charged particles contribute to the generation of EM radiation. Participants explore the relationship between classical and quantum descriptions of EM phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the charges associated with various particles in stars create EM radiation, drawing parallels to a dipole antenna.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding the difference between classical EM waves and quantum mechanics is crucial, noting that the highest energy photons (gamma rays) and low energy photons (radio waves) are fundamentally the same but require different approaches for understanding.
  • A participant challenges the interpretation of a video that simplifies the process of EM radiation creation, arguing that the visual representation does not accurately depict photons and warns against forming conclusions based on such simplifications.
  • There is a request for educational resources on Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) to enhance understanding of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the video and the nature of the EM radiation depicted. There is no consensus on the accuracy of the initial understanding of the relationship between classical and quantum descriptions of EM radiation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of reconciling classical and quantum theories of EM radiation, indicating that a deeper understanding of both frameworks is necessary. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the implications of visual representations in educational materials.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying astrophysics, quantum mechanics, or anyone seeking to understand the nuances of electromagnetic radiation in the context of stellar processes.

NeilHa201
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TL;DR
Which charged particles are involved in the creation of broken EM fields lines and associated photon creation?\
Having had a look at the following video of the dipole antenna and the creation of EM radiation, which I completely understand, I had a look at the link http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Astro/procyc.html#c1 and the hydrogen fusion process within a star. Looking at the process how do the charges associated with the various particles create the same broken kinks / packages of EM energy field as seen in the dipole antenna video? For the kinks to break I assume that a positive and negative charge need to combine/ cross one another and that this cannot happen with EM field lines between the same charge particles i.e. the photon to photon in fusion. Is it the emission of the positron that joins and annihilates the electron thus seeing the use of mass in the creation of energy that creates the photon of EM radiation?

Am I correct in stating that these packets of EM radiation shown in the video are indeed photons, and that this is where the awareness that light and all EM radiation shows both particle and wave form characteristics?
 
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NeilHa201 said:
Summary:: Which charged particles are involved in the creation of broken EM fields lines and associated photon creation?\

the creation of EM radiation, which I completely understand
Hi and welcome to PF. I would suggest that you may not, in fact, be in a position of complete understanding this topic. Some of what you have read may sound 'reasonable' to you but that's another thing. Sometimes I worry about the reliance on animations which can easily be misinterpreted if the written or spoken description is not clear enough.
The answers to your question involves the difference between a classical approach to EM Waves and the Quantum approach which involves Photons. You have chosen two extremes of Energy for your question. The Photons of Gamma Rays have the highest energy (Nuclear reactions in stars etc) that we have ever measured and the photons in radio frequency waves are so very low energy that we seldom consider them as we can't conveniently treat them as individual quanta. EM is all the same stuff, of course because it follows all the same 'Laws'.
Before you try to reconcile the apparent differences between the two frequencies of EM waves, you need to get a deeper understanding of the two. Quantum Mechanics (replaced, these days by Quantum Electrodynamics) takes a lot of getting hold of and almost none of it is at all intuitive. Classical EM theory is a bit more intuitive, perhaps, but there's a lot of Maths involved if you want to be able to make your own predictions about any EM situation.
NeilHa201 said:
Summary:: Which charged particles are involved in the creation of broken EM fields lines and associated photon creation?\

Am I correct in stating that these packets of EM radiation shown in the video are indeed photons, and that this is where the awareness that light and all EM radiation shows both particle and wave form characteristics?
You are not correct. The video shows a very simplified classical explanation of a totally classical process. Those 'bubble -looking' things are not representing photons at all; it's not suggested that it's a Quantum phenomenon and it's dangerous to try to form your own conclusions about that. If you look carefully you will see that the lines do not 'break' they are just a graphical depiction of the maxima or minima of the waves. Where the wave energy starts to be propagated away, there are two possible directions in which the wave max can travel - that's all. You can get very similar patterns in ocean waves, around an obstacle.

Just keep reading around and you can add to your understanding - this is hard stuff. :smile:
 
Right okay I'll look into that more when I have time, thankyou for the response. Do you have any pointers to where I can find educational information relating to Quantum Electrodynamics?
 

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