Energy analysis of the system (leaking bucket from Morin's "Mechanics"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Michael Korobov
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Energy
AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on understanding the energy decrease in a sand leaking bucket system, specifically how the formula for energy change, dE = -Tdx + E(dx/x), is derived. The user seeks clarification on the component E(dx/x) and its relation to the mass of the sand and the bucket's movement. They propose using Newton's second law to derive key equations for mass, tension, and acceleration, ultimately leading to the kinetic energy expression E = mv²/2. The conversation emphasizes the importance of integrating the equations to solve the problem effectively. The approach aims to clarify the relationship between the energy dynamics and the physical behavior of the system.
Michael Korobov
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Homework Statement
Problem 5.17 from David Morin's "Introduction to classical mechanics"
At t = 0, a massless bucket contains a mass M of sand. It is connected to a wall by a massless spring with constant tension T (that is, independent of length). The ground is frictionless, and the initial distance to the wall is L. At later times, let x be the distance from the wall, and let m be the mass of sand in the bucket. The bucket is released, and on its way to the wall, it leaks sand at a rate dm/dx = M/L. In other words, the rate is constant with respect to distance, not time; and it ends up empty right when it reaches the wall. Note that dx is negative, so dm is also.
Q.
(a) What is the kinetic energy of the (sand in the) bucket, as a function of x? What is its maximum value?
Relevant Equations
Conservation of momentum
Hi,
Can you please help me understand how the formula of energy decreasing during a sand leaking is obtained?
One of possible solution to this problem, suggested in the textbook, states that when the bucket moves from x to x+dx (d is negative), there are two components responsible of energy change: one is due to the work done by the spring (-T)dx, and another which is proportional to dx/x, i.e. the energy change is E dx/x. Thus
$$dE=-Tdx+E\frac{dx}{x}$$.
How this component E dx/x is obtained?
Thanks a lot!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
How much sand is in the bucket when x from the wall?
What fraction is lost in the next dx?
What fraction of its KE is that?
 
Without wishing to detract from the textbook's approach, I think it is more straightforward to write down Newton's second law as ##T=m(\xi)a## where ##m(\xi)## is the mass of the sand when the bucket is at distance ##\xi## from the wall and then note that ##a=\dfrac{dv}{dt}=\dfrac{dv}{dx}\dfrac{dx}{dt}=v\dfrac{dv}{dx}=-v\dfrac{dv}{d\xi}.## The resulting equation is separable.
 
To solve this problem, these are the key equations to be resolved.
$$\frac {dm} {dx} = \frac {M} {L} $$.... get m(x)
$$T=ma ⇒ \frac {dT} {dx} = 0 = m \frac {da} {dx} + a \frac {dm} {dx} $$.... get a(x)
$$a = \frac {dv} {dt} = \frac {dv} {dx} \frac {dx} {dt} = v \frac {dv} {dx} ⇒ a dx = v dv $$.... get v(x)

Finally,
$$\text{Kinetic Energy} = E =\frac {mv^2} {2} $$.... get E(x)

If you got the equation correctly, the graph should look similar to the attached image (plot using https://www.transum.org/Maths/Activity/Graph/Desmos.asp)
 

Attachments

  • graph.jpg
    graph.jpg
    11.3 KB · Views: 44
Last edited:
Attached image shows how to get
$$dE = -Tdx + E\frac{dx} {x}$$
This is interesting. But I'm not sure how this approach helps in solving the problem ;-)
 

Attachments

  • equation.png
    equation.png
    11.3 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:
Tomy World said:
Attached image shows how to get
$$dE = -Tdx + E\frac{dx} {x}$$
This is interesting. But I'm not sure how this approach helps in solving the problem ;-)
Dividing through by x makes it directly integrable.
 
Thread 'Collision of a bullet on a rod-string system: query'
In this question, I have a question. I am NOT trying to solve it, but it is just a conceptual question. Consider the point on the rod, which connects the string and the rod. My question: just before and after the collision, is ANGULAR momentum CONSERVED about this point? Lets call the point which connects the string and rod as P. Why am I asking this? : it is clear from the scenario that the point of concern, which connects the string and the rod, moves in a circular path due to the string...
Back
Top