Energy Conservation: Determining Forces on Particles

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around applying energy conservation principles to determine the forces acting on two particles in an isolated system. The participants are analyzing the energy function that describes the system, which includes kinetic and potential energy components.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to differentiate the energy function to find the forces acting on the particles and questions whether equating the differentiated expression to zero is the correct approach. Some participants raise concerns about the units in the original expressions and suggest checking the differentiation process. Others discuss the implications of the conservation of energy and the relationship between forces and potential energy.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing corrections and clarifications regarding the differentiation of the energy function. There is a focus on ensuring the correct application of the chain rule and the relationship between kinetic and potential energy. Multiple interpretations of the differentiation results are being explored, indicating a productive discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of potential confusion regarding the definitions of energy and momentum, as well as the correct application of differentiation techniques. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify these concepts without reaching a definitive conclusion.

cleggy
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1. I have to use energy conservation to determine the forces acting on the particles.


2. An isolated system consists of two particles of masses m1 and m2, whose position vectors in an inertial frame are x1 and x2 and velocity vectors are v1 and v2.

The interaction of the particles can be described by the energy function :

E= 1/2m1(v1)^2 + 1/2m2(v2)^2 - (k/r^2)

k is a positive constant
r = mod(x1-x2) and is the magnitude of the separation vector.

3. Do I have to differentiate E to get 1/2m1(a1)^2 + 1/2m2(a2)^2 - (k/r^2) and equate it to zero?
 
Last edited:
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The units of the first two expressions involving the mass are not energy but momentum. Check the expression again.
 
Ooops. Thanks chrisk for pointing that out.


Indeed the velocity vectors should each be squared.
 
Differentiating with respect to time does lead to

dE/dt = 0

because the total energy of the system is constant. Take into account that r is a function of time.
 
So dE/dt = m1a1 + m2a2 +2k/mod(v1-v2)^3 ?

Would I be right in saying that due to superposition principle then the forces on the particles is F = -2k/mod(v1-v2)^3 ?
 
Check how you differentiated. Use the chain rule.
 
Ah.

So dE/dt = m1a1 +m2a2 + [2k/mod(x1-x2)^3](v1 -v2) = 0
 
Recall that

F=-dU/dx

when F is conservative. The given expression contains kinetic and potential energy (U) terms.
 
Then F= [-2k/mod(x1-x2)^3](v1-v2)
 

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