Energy in the LHC beam at any time

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the energy contained in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) beam at any given moment, focusing on the average energy per particle and the total energy in the beam. Participants explore the implications of this energy in relation to theoretical concepts such as black holes and time machines.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a calculation of the average energy in the LHC beam, specifying that they are not interested in the energy required for supporting systems, only the energy in the beam itself.
  • Another participant provides a reference indicating that at full power and peak luminosity, the energy is approximately 724 MJ or 201 kWh, equating it to the energy produced by burning 5 gallons of gasoline.
  • A participant humorously questions whether the energy is sufficient to warm a cup of coffee, suggesting that this perspective could mitigate sensational claims about black holes.
  • One participant acknowledges the provided data, noting that the energy is higher than expected but still insufficient to create a black hole that could threaten Earth.
  • A participant mentions that this energy corresponds to about 8 nanograms of relativistic protons.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of Planck energy, stating that if all energy in both beams could be focused at a single point, it might approach the conditions necessary to create a black hole, referencing conventional physics without invoking extra dimensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of agreement regarding the energy levels discussed, but there is no consensus on the implications of this energy in relation to black holes or other theoretical scenarios.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the energy calculations and the conditions under which black holes might form, but these assumptions remain unresolved and depend on specific definitions and contexts.

smallphi
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Can someone that has the data calculate what is the average energy in the large hadron collider beam at any moment of time. It's pretty straightforward, you have N particles which such and such speed and energy, you just sum up. I am not talking at all about the energy to support the supermagnets or the other systems, not the energy to support the beam, but the energy in the beam at fixed time.

Although the protons fly at huge speeds the energy/proton is not very significant if measure in Joules. I have no idea how many protons are circulating in the beam at any time, that would determine the total energy.

I wonder if it's enough to warm up a cup of coffee? LOL This would put all the ridiculous questions about black holes and time machines to rest ...
 
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https://edms.cern.ch/file/445830/5/Vol_1_Chapter_2.pdf

724 MJ or 201 kWh. Approximately equal to the energy produced by burning 5 gallons of gasoline, and enough to boil two tons of water.

That is at full power and peak luminosity. We won't see that kind of energy density till sometime in 2009.
 
smallphi said:
I wonder if it's enough to warm up a cup of coffee? LOL This would put all the ridiculous questions about black holes and time machines to rest ...
Well, we've all seen that reporters are primarily interested in what titillates, not what informs. As long as anyone with a PhD anywhere says black holes may form and that black holes are not well understood, the stage is set for dire predictions.

Your approach to putting it all in perspective is interesting though.
 
Thanks for the data hamster143 :) It's not as low as I imagined but definitely not enough to produce a black hole that will 'destroy the earth' LOL
 
That would be 8 nano grams of relativistic protons :)
 
Planck energy is 543 kWh. So if you could focus all energy in both beams in one point, you'd come pretty close to creating a black hole, even in conventional physics without extra dimensions.
 

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