Energy-mass equiliance and mass defect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of energy-mass equivalence and mass defect, particularly in the context of binding energy in nucleons and quarks. Participants explore the implications of binding energy on mass in different systems, including protons, neutrons, and quarks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that mass defect occurs when nucleons bind together, resulting in a lower mass than the sum of their individual masses due to binding energy.
  • Another participant describes the QCD potential as resembling a harmonic oscillator, which can have positive binding energy while still being bound.
  • A question is raised regarding the sign of the QCD potential in baryonic systems compared to quark systems, specifically why mass decreases for nucleons but increases for quarks.
  • It is suggested that the nucleon-nucleon interaction can be likened to electromagnetic interactions, with a massive particle (pion) as the force carrier, leading to an attractive potential and negative binding energy for stable nuclei.
  • Participants discuss that within the nucleus, quarks experience a different potential shape due to net color charges, resulting in positive binding energy and preventing escape.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of binding energy in quark and nucleon systems, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants do not fully resolve the implications of binding energy on mass in quark systems versus nucleon systems, and there are assumptions about the nature of potentials that remain unexamined.

nickek
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Hi!
According to E=mc^2, we have the phenomena mass defect. For example, when we put a proton and neutron together, that particle has a slightly lower mass than the sum of mass of the free particles due to the binding energy between the nucleons. OK, I'm fine with that - a lower energy results in a lower mass.

Now I hear that the binding energy between quarks is responsible for the major part of a proton's (and all particles made of quarks) mass. But shouldn't binding energy *lower* the mass of the quarks in the same manner as the above stated example? Where does my reasoning fail?

/Nick
 
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The QCD potential is like a harmonic oscillator: it starts at zero and rises to infinity at large distances. So a state can have positive binding energy and still be bound.
 
But does the QCD potential in a system of baryons (e.g a proton and a neutron) have the opposite sign (negative) compared to the quark system? I mean, why does the mass decrease when we put together a neutron and a proton, but increase in a quark system?
 
The nucleon-nucleon interaction can be described similar to the electromagnetic interaction, but with a massive particle (pion) as force carrier. This gives an attracting potential (Yukawa potential), and negative binding energy (compared to a large separation) for stable nuclei.

This is not possible inside the nucleus, where you "see" net color charges of quarks. This leads to a different potential shape, and a positive binding energy. Unlike for nucleons, those quarks cannot escape - the potential does not go to zero for large distances.
 
Ah, these answers together solved my quandary. Thanks Bill_K and mfb!
 

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