English consonants in careless speech

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In summary, the speaker asks for oil at a gas station, and the attendant responds with "Chek yall?" The speaker does not understand the question and asks for clarification. The attendant asks the speaker to check all of the oil in the car, and the speaker thanks him.
  • #1
fxdung
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Can they pronounce English consonants not absolutely contact in carelessly speech? Example in pronouncing t and n the tongue does not absolutely contact the roof of mouth(on alveolar ridge)?In pronouncing p and b the two lips do not absolutely close?...
 
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  • #2
fxdung said:
Can they pronounce English consonants not absolutely contact in carelessly speech? Example in pronouncing t and n the tongue does not absolutely contact the roof of mouth(on alveolar ridge)?In pronouncing p and b the two lips do not absolutely close?...
Lots of different English but I think those sounds are only produced in the way you say otherwise they will not be recognised.
I just tried it (I am NW England) if I relax my mouth it sounds like I am falling asleep or intoxicated.
There are levels, softer and hard but if those anatomical actions are not met it will sound drugged. To me.
Lots of language enthusiasts on here who may disagree and many have a better understanding of my language!
 
  • #3
In this audio link(Time is about 00:50)there is sentence: Yes, and it would look really nice in the living room.I am very difficult in hearing "n" in "and" and also difficult in hearing "it".I guess "n" is not completely contact and sound "i" in "it" happen at same place of "n"?
 
  • #4
Both of those consonants are there, and are pronounced normally. They might be not enunciated very forcefully, but you generally can't make a consonant sound without restricting the air flow at the required point of articulation. What gets reduced in normal speech and in this example specifically, is the vowels. He doesn't say /and/, but /(ə)nd/, where the schwa sound is almost omitted. The 'and it' phrase flows almost like a single word: /(ə)nd_ɪt/.
 
  • #5
Is there a time the tongue doesn't move in pronouncing "n" or the tongue moves continuously, I do not hear the stopped time in pronounce "n" and "t"?
 
  • #6
There's no need to stop. You glide from one sound to the next, unless the place of articulation is distant (then you naturally have to pause to move the tongue to the new position).
 
  • #7
fxdung said:
Example in pronouncing t and n
Or "r"...

From a trip where I was driving a rental car in some southern state on an interview trip back east and stopped to get gas (this was long enough ago that gas stations still offered full-service attendant service for free)...

Me: "Fill her up please"

Him: "Yes sir!" (I was only like 20 y/o, and appreciated being called sir)

Him (after starting the fillup and returning to my window): "Chek yall?"

Me: "Sorry, what?"

Him: "Chek yall?"

Me: "I'm really sorry, I don't understand. What are you asking?"

Him (very slowly since I'm obviously mentally slow or impaired): "Chek yar all?"

Me: "Oh, oh! Check your oil. Oh! Thanks, that wound be great."

Lordy.
 
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  • #8
What the hell, Mike, don't you speak Amurican ?
 
  • #9
LOL, if cell phones existed back then I'd probably pull mine out and fire up Google Translate... o0)
 
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  • #10
phinds said:
What the hell, Mike, don't you speak Amurican ?
That was improperly articulated. What I MEANT to say was
What the hay-ul, Mike, don't you speak Amurican?
 
  • #11
In pronouncing, do we need completely finish consonant then we make the vowel sound in sequence, or one part of tongue make consonant in the same time other part of tongue make vowel(At least two actions happen at a beginning of pronouncing)?
 
  • #12
fxdung said:
In pronouncing, do we need completely finish consonant then we make the vowel sound in sequence, or one part of tongue make consonant in the same time other part of tongue make vowel(At least two actions happen at a beginning of pronouncing)?
Define "need to".

At the base level, you only need to enunciate sufficiently enough so as to be understood.
Is there a goal more nuanced than that?
 
  • #13
I hear in English it seem that they pronounce consonant and vowel at same time at the beginning of word sound?My goal is to be able listen English.
 
  • #14
fxdung said:
I hear in English it seem that they pronounce consonant and vowel at same time at the beginning of word sound?My goal is to be able listen English.

From what part of the country? Accents from different parts of the US can vary pretty widely. Even though there are no longer full-service gas station attendants in the deep south of the US, the accent presented by my attendent way back then is still prevelant there.
 
  • #15
phinds said:
What the hay-ul, Mike, don't you speak Amurican?
"Doncha" mean "Merkin?" (Rhymes with gherkin.)
 
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  • #16
I am self learning English from audio file, so I don't recognize which part of country!But I am learned that consonant and vowel in English affect each other. So I ask for example for the word "need" while the tip of tongue contact alveolar ridge for "n" other part of tongue prepare for "ee"?It is need not wait until the tip of tongue leave the roof of mouth then pronounce "ee"?Even the tip of tongue does not move at all in pronouncing the word "need"?My goal is listen fast English.
 
  • #17
fxdung said:
I am self learning English from audio file, so I don't recognize which part of country!But I am learned that consonant and vowel in English affect each other. So I ask for example for the word "need" while the tip of tongue contact alveolar ridge for "n" other part of tongue prepare for "ee"?It is need not wait until the tip of tongue leave the roof of mouth then pronounce "ee"?Even the tip of tongue does not move at all in pronouncing the word "need"?My goal is listen fast English.
Thank you for wanting to learn English. I'm sure that your English is better than any skills that I may have in your language.

I think you are overthinking this. Don't worry about strange accents in English and variations. Just learn vanilla English pronunciations from mid-America, and you should be fine. In my experience, learning a new language is mainly about learning verb conjugations and adding to your vocabulary...
 
  • #18
Bystander said:
"Doncha" mean "Merkin?" (Rhymes with gherkin.)
That's what I say-ed. The "A" in Amurican is silent and I should have shown that w/ an apostorphy. 'Murican
 
  • #19
fxdung said:
I am self learning English from audio file, so I don't recognize which part of country!But I am learned that consonant and vowel in English affect each other. So I ask for example for the word "need" while the tip of tongue contact alveolar ridge for "n" other part of tongue prepare for "ee"?It is need not wait until the tip of tongue leave the roof of mouth then pronounce "ee"?Even the tip of tongue does not move at all in pronouncing the word "need"?My goal is listen fast English.
I just tried pronouncing "need".
To answer your question about the tongue position,
  • I found that with the tip on the alveolar ridge much (most?) of of the air flow is out of the nose. This gives a nasal sound to the"n".
  • Continuing from "n" to "ee", the tip comes down while the back part of the tongue rises to contact near the throat.
The above changes happen smoothly at the same time, blending together.

The changing tongue position also changes the resonant frequency of the vocal tract so that the "n" sound is a slightly higher frequency (pitch) than the "ee" frequency.

The different air flow paths were found by holding a wet hand close to my face while slowly saying "need." (Wet hand was made by using tongue. ?:))

You also asked about "it" and "need." The "i" sound is very close the the "ee" sound. For the "i", a part of the tongue that is further back is raised in the beginning part of the throat, giving the "i" a slightly higher frequency than the "ee."

The three vowels "e", "a", "i" are different by what part of the back of the tongue is against the top of the mouth/throat. "e" has the most forward position. "a" is a bit further back,' and "i" is at the beginning of the throat.

The "a" is a little tricky with two pronunciations.
  • One is when naming the letter as in the above paragraph.
  • The second sounds more like "uh", it is less formal, and is very often used in speech because it is easier to say. The tongue position is part way between the "a" and the "i" positions and has a somewhat sudden start (close to a plosive start to be technical).
I do not think I can describe the difference very well, you will have to here it from an Americanized English speaker that is talking casually, and perhaps rapidly.

Congratulations on your good grasp of the language and your well stated questions.

This post became technical, sorry. At least it will give you exercise in translating!

Cheers,
Tom

What is your native language?
 
  • #20
Hey, Tom. I don't think these vowel articulation instructions are consistent with how English phonetics defines the sounds in question.
 
  • #21
berkeman said:
Him (after starting the fillup and returning to my window): "Chek yall?"
In some parts of the US south, the words "all" and "oil" are pronounced the same.
 
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  • #22
My native language is Vietnamese. Why in this audio above I only hear s-ah-i in Yes,and it, I hear friction(s) sound, not exactly but near nasal ah sound and short i sound.
 
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  • #23
Bandersnatch said:
Hey, Tom. I don't think these vowel articulation instructions are consistent with how English phonetics defines the sounds in question.
Could well be. It was definitely ad hoc and empirical!

I was sitting in front of the computer emitting those sounds/words with a finger in my mouth to determine tongue position and paying attention the the perceived frequencies.

Or were you referring to a specific different part of the post?

fxdung said:
Why in this audio above I only hear s-ah-i in Yes,and it,
What section of the recording is that in? The only thing I found was in section 6 saying "Yes, but is it too big for the kitchen?" where the "Yes" and "but" were very close together making it hard to understand.

Cheers,
Tom
 
  • #24
The time is 00:50:Yes, and it would look really nice in the living room.
 
  • #25
I noticed a few maybe problems with the recording:
  1. The 'y' of the sound of the word 'yes' is very quiet.
  2. The 'sss' of the word 'yes' is very loud. It sounds like the recording was made with the tone control set to make the high frequencies louder.
  3. The 'd' at the of 'and' is hardly said at all. The person speaking was quite lazy in saying 'and' and almost left off the 'd.'
  4. There is the same problem with the 't' of 'it.' The person speaking almost did not say the 't' at all!

Of course those that grew up with a language can mentally fill in those problems because they know the things that would 'fit' in the dropped areas.

A high quality sound system on your part could help some. Adjusting the tone controls on sound system might help too.

Anyhow, there are real, but hard to notice, problems with the recording. It is not all you! (You, of course, have some things that you expect from your own native language... and that can make things harder.)

Cheers,
Tom
 
  • #26
fxdung said:
Why in this audio above I only hear s-ah-i in Yes,and it, I hear friction(s) sound, not exactly but near nasal ah sound and short i sound.
Following the /s/ sound there's the 'schwa' vowel. You make it by relaxing the tongue to neutral position and engaging the vocal cords. Then there definitely is the /n/ consonant. That's probably the nasal sound you're hearing. The /d/ is also pronounced, followed by /ɪt/. There's a linking from word to word - i.e. you don't stop after yes or and, but glide from one sound to the next as if it were a single word.

If you want my advice: grab a phonetics book. Anything should do. Those aimed at adults learning English as a foreign language at university level are best, IMO. But they all should cover the same topics, so whatever is fine. Something made for your local market specifically may include information on how to handle errors typical for learners with your native language.
There you will find detailed instructions on how to articulate each sound, as well as instructions and exercises on how to make your speech flow naturally.
Alternatively, you could study e.g. English IPA on Wikipedia, but - in isolation - it'd be harder due to a lack of structure.
 
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  • #27
In phonetics books to make n and d the tongue tip stop at teeth ridge, but why I don't hear the stop time(in Yes,and it in audio above)?
 
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  • #28
Because the words are run together in that recording. That is sometimes called "slurring your speech." The person talking is being lazy and careless about his speech.
 
  • #29
Please explain "run together".Does it mean many letters to be pronounced at the same time or continuous but sequence pronouncing?
 
  • #30
continuous but sequence pronouncing.
 

Related to English consonants in careless speech

1. What are some common examples of English consonants in careless speech?

Some common examples of English consonants in careless speech include the substitution of 'th' with 'd' or 'v', the omission of final consonants, and the merging of consonant clusters (e.g. 'ask' becomes 'aks').

2. Why do English consonants change in careless speech?

English consonants change in careless speech due to a phenomenon known as assimilation, where sounds become more similar to their neighboring sounds in order to make speech faster and more efficient.

3. How can careless speech affect communication?

Careless speech can affect communication by making it difficult for listeners to understand the intended message. This can lead to misunderstandings and confusion, particularly for non-native speakers.

4. Are there any situations where it is acceptable to use careless speech?

In informal situations, such as casual conversations with friends or family, it is generally acceptable to use careless speech. However, in formal or professional settings, it is important to speak clearly and use proper pronunciation.

5. Can careless speech be corrected?

Yes, with practice and awareness, careless speech can be corrected. It may be helpful to work with a speech therapist or practice enunciation exercises to improve pronunciation and reduce careless speech habits.

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