Entropy Change - Irreversible Isothermal Compression

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the entropy change associated with an isothermal irreversible compression of nitrogen gas under ideal gas conditions. The problem involves calculating the entropy changes for the system, surroundings, and universe while considering specific thermodynamic principles and assumptions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate the entropy change of the system using the formula for isothermal conditions but expresses difficulty in conceptualizing the entropy change of the surroundings. Other participants question the relationship between heat transfer and work done, exploring the implications of the first law of thermodynamics.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the concepts of heat transfer and work, discussing the sign conventions and interpretations related to the first law of thermodynamics. There is a focus on clarifying the relationship between heat removed from the system and heat gained by the surroundings, indicating a productive exploration of the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of sign conventions in thermodynamics and the implications of using different reference points for the system and surroundings. The discussion highlights the importance of understanding these conventions in the context of the problem.

Stephen Clarke
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Given a sample of nitrogen gas (assume ideal gas conditions), the following conditions were observed inside the container. n = 0.75 moles at 253 K, and pressure = 0.5 atm. Then, an ISOTHERMAL IRREVERSIBLE COMPRESSION on the system forced by a constant Pexternal = 10 atm reduced the initial volume by a factor of 2. Assume diathermal walls on this container. Calculate the entropy change of the system, surroundings and universe.

ATTEMPT:

The entropy change of the system is under ISOTHERMAL conditions, so, dT = 0, and,

dS = nRln(P2/P1)
dS = (0.75 mol)(8.314 J/Kmol)ln(1/2)

However, I am having a difficult time conceptualizing the entropy change of the surroundings. This is obviously an integral part of computing the entropy change of this particular universe.

I'll appreciate any feedback! Thank you.
 
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How much heat is transferred to the surroundings (which can be considered as an ideal reservoir at 253 K)?
 
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AH! To answer your question, is it correct to say that the heat transferred to the surroundings is simply q = -w?

That is to say, work done by the constant external Pressure forces heat out of the system, or w = -P(V2-V1)?
 
Stephen Clarke said:
AH! To answer your question, is it correct to say that the heat transferred to the surroundings is simply q = -w?
Is the change in internal energy zero?
I assume you are using the form of the first law in which work done on the system is positive and work done by the system is negative: ##\Delta U=q+w##. Correct?
That is to say, work done by the constant external Pressure forces heat out of the system, or w = -P(V2-V1)?
I wouldn't say it in those words. Instead, I would say that, since the change in internal energy is zero, the work done on the system is equal to the heat removed from the system. Your equation for the work is correct, if work done on the system is taken as positive.
 
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Thanks. One last question.

I know sign convention and interpretation can get fuzzy. Is it accurate to say heat removed from this system (-Q) is equivalent to heat gained by the surroundings, in which case we would use a positive value of Q? (Since we are changing reference points, I.e., system --> surroundings.)
 
Stephen Clarke said:
AH! To answer your question, is it correct to say that the heat transferred to the surroundings is simply q = -w?

That is to say, work done by the constant external Pressure forces heat out of the system, or w = -P(V2-V1)?
Stephen Clarke said:
Thanks. One last question.

I know sign convention and interpretation can get fuzzy. Is it accurate to say heat removed from this system (-Q) is equivalent to heat gained by the surroundings, in which case we would use a positive value of Q? (Since we are changing reference points, I.e., system --> surroundings.)
Sure.
 
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