Entropy in an irreversible process

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of entropy in irreversible processes within closed systems, specifically questioning whether the entropy change can be zero under certain conditions and exploring the implications of adiabatic processes at constant temperature.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the entropy change can be zero for a closed system in an irreversible process and asks for conditions under which this might occur.
  • Another participant suggests that entropy change could be zero for an adiabatic process at constant temperature, implying a specific scenario where this might hold.
  • A different participant firmly disagrees, stating that adiabatic processes involve no heat transfer, and the irreversibility implies that entropy is generated due to factors like friction.
  • Another contribution asserts that for irreversible processes, the entropy change is always greater than zero, indicating that work is required to return the system to its initial state and defining entropy generation as a measure of irreversibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express conflicting views on the conditions under which entropy change might be zero in irreversible processes, with no consensus reached on the validity of the claims regarding adiabatic processes and entropy generation.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights assumptions about the definitions of adiabatic processes and irreversibility, as well as the dependence on specific conditions that may not be fully articulated.

supermesh
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Can entropy change be zero for a closed system in an irreversible process? If yes under what conditions? Thanks!
 
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Is it true that entropy change for the irreversible process would be zero for an adiabatic process carried out in constant temperature?
 
No!
Adiabatic means no heat transfer. The fact that the process is irreversible means that there is still entropy generated however this is now due to friction or other irreversible effects
 
Hi there:

For an irreversible process, entropy change is always greater than zero.

It means that work needs to be provided in order to get the system back to its initial conditions.

By definition, entropy generation/increase/change is a measure of irreveribility ...

Thanks,

Gordan
 

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