Equilibrium Reactions: Not All Elementary?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between rate laws and equilibrium reactions, particularly questioning whether all equilibrium reactions can be classified as elementary reactions. Participants explore the implications of stoichiometric coefficients in rate laws versus equilibrium constants and the nature of complex mechanisms in chemical reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the rate law is expressed as R=k[A]^m[B]^n, where m and n do not have to equal stoichiometric coefficients, yet equilibrium constants are derived using stoichiometric coefficients, raising questions about the nature of equilibrium reactions.
  • One participant asserts that not all equilibrium reactions are elementary, suggesting that this is a coincidence rather than a rule.
  • Another participant emphasizes that complex mechanisms can also reach equilibrium, implying that the rate law should reflect different coefficients, yet many problems use stoichiometric coefficients.
  • It is proposed that equilibrium can be derived from thermodynamic principles, which clarifies why it aligns with reaction stoichiometry, while kinetics may not always follow this pattern.
  • A participant argues that the generalization of kinetic approaches yielding the same results as thermodynamics is incorrect, indicating a potential misunderstanding in the application of these principles.
  • One participant mentions that equilibrium laws can be derived from thermodynamic arguments and that any mechanism must obey these laws, suggesting that a valid mechanism should yield the correct equilibrium law.
  • The principle of microscopic reversibility is introduced, stating that the reverse reaction follows the same path as the forward reaction, which is crucial for understanding equilibrium equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the classification of equilibrium reactions as elementary and the implications of stoichiometric coefficients in rate laws. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of applying stoichiometric coefficients to complex mechanisms and the potential discrepancies between kinetic and thermodynamic approaches to equilibrium.

IAmUnique
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The rate law is given by R=k[A]^m[ B]^n where m,n needn't be equal to stoichiometric coefficients...but we use r=k[A]^a[ B]^b where a,b are stoichiometric coefficients when we use ratio rate of forward to rate of backward reaction in getting value of equilibrium constant K for any given reaction at equilibrium...why is it different in both cases...does it mean all equilibrium reactions are elementary reactions? But that isn't possible as many intermediate steps are equilibrium reactions in the mechanism of complex reactions...
 
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IAmUnique said:
does it mean all equilibrium reactions are elementary reactions?

No. It is kind of a coincidence that it works this way.
 
Well, it's a coincidence for all reactions in equilibrium sounds peculiar...
Like I said a complex mechanism too can be in equillibrium...in that case the rate law equation should have different coefficients...but all problems we solve in equillibrium chapter have stoichiometric coefficients only
Borek said:
No. It is kind of a coincidence that it works this way.
t
 
Equilibrium can be derived from the thermodynamics, then it is clear why it follows the reaction stoichiometry. As you have correctly said, reaction kinetics doesn't follow stoichiometry - or rather, it sometimes follows stoichiometry of the elementary reactions (which are not necessarily the same as the forward and/or backward reaction). For such simple cases kinetic approach yields the same formula for the equilibrium - no coincidence here. Generalization of that approach yields the same result as the thermodynamics, but is a coincidence in the sense that the generalization is incorrect.
 
We have discussed this quite often here including quite recently, so briefly - you can derive the equilibrium laws from quite general thermodynamic arguments (found in all University level starting textbooks of physical chemistry) and so whatever mechamism and rate law, the equilibrium law has to be obeyed. So given a rate law fornthenforward reaction you can deduce that for the back reaction.

I think you could not come up with a mechanism that made sense in both directions for which you didn't get the right equilibrium law, but you are welcome to try - it might ba the best way to convince yourself and understand.

There is a physical principle you have to incorporate into this - that is that the path of the reverse reaction is the same as the forward reaction in reverse - you can't go back another way. If you could then indeed you don't generally get the ordinary equilibrium equations. But classical and quantum mechanics say that this 'principle of microscopic reversibility' aka 'detailed balance' is true.
 
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