Euler's equation of thermodynamics in free expansion (Joule expansion)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Euler's equation in the context of free expansion (Joule expansion) of an ideal gas. Participants explore the implications of this equation on entropy, internal energy, and the role of chemical potential during the expansion process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the application of Euler's equation, noting that it seems to suggest entropy remains unchanged during free expansion, which contradicts the known increase in entropy.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the equation U = -PV + TS, suggesting that the Gibbs free energy is more relevant in this context and that its change during free expansion is not zero.
  • Further contributions reiterate the derivation of Euler's equation from the first law of thermodynamics and the properties of extensive variables, emphasizing the relationship between internal energy, pressure, volume, and temperature.
  • A later reply acknowledges the omission of the chemical potential term in the initial analysis, indicating that the change in chemical potential cancels out the change in the TS term, leading to an unchanged internal energy after free expansion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of Euler's equation in this scenario. There are competing views regarding the relevance of different thermodynamic potentials and the implications of free expansion on internal energy and entropy.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of thermodynamic variables and the assumptions made regarding the state of the gas during free expansion. The discussion highlights unresolved aspects of how different equations relate to the behavior of the system.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and professionals in thermodynamics, particularly those exploring the nuances of gas behavior during expansion processes and the application of thermodynamic equations.

Ron19932017
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Hi everyone,
I am confused when I apply Euler's equation on the free expansion of an ideal gas.

Consider a free expansion (expansion of gas in vaccum) where the volume is doubled (V->2V)
The classical free expansion of an ideal gas results in increase in entropy by an amount of nR ln(2), a decrease in pressure (P->P/2), and the temperature T is constant.

The Euler equation of thermodynamics writes U=-PV+TS.
Before free expansion S=(U+PV)/T.
After free expansion S=(U+(P/2)(2V))/T.
It looks like that from Euler equation the entropy should remain unchange.
However it must not be the case from what we know about free expansion.

Can anyone give me some clue where am i wrong?
 
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Where did you get U = -PV+TS, because, according to my understanding, the Gibbs free energy is defined as G=U-TS+PV and it is not zero nor is its change zero in free expansion. In free expansion, its change is ##-nRT\ln{2}##
 
Chestermiller said:
Where did you get U = -PV+TS, because, according to my understanding, the Gibbs free energy is defined as G=U-TS+PV and it is not zero nor is its change zero in free expansion. In free expansion, its change is ##-nRT\ln{2}##
The equation U=-PV+TS is called Euler's equation, and is derived from the homogenous property of extensive variables. Start with a chamber of gas with a state of (P,V,T), consider the first law of thermodynamics, dU=-PdV+TdS,
when we homogeneously increase volume and entropy (extensive variables) by 10% and keeping pressure and
temperature (intensive variables) constant, the internal energy U, an extensive variable, should change accordingly by 10%. Then U(final)=1.1U(initial), 0.1U=-P(0.1V)+Td(0.1S), U=-PV+TS.
 
Ron19932017 said:
The equation U=-PV+TS is called Euler's equation, and is derived from the homogenous property of extensive variables. Start with a chamber of gas with a state of (P,V,T), consider the first law of thermodynamics, dU=-PdV+TdS,
when we homogeneously increase volume and entropy (extensive variables) by 10% and keeping pressure and
temperature (intensive variables) constant, the internal energy U, an extensive variable, should change accordingly by 10%. Then U(final)=1.1U(initial), 0.1U=-P(0.1V)+Td(0.1S), U=-PV+TS.
The state of a closed system is determined by specifying 2 parameters. Once the pressure and temperature are specified, none of the other parameters can change. The equation of state for the gas, P=P(V,T) (for fixed mass) tells you once pressure and temperature are fixed, the volume can't change.
 
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Chestermiller said:
The state of a closed system is determined by specifying 2 parameters. Once the pressure and temperature are specified, none of the other parameters can change. The equation of state for the gas, P=P(V,T) (for fixed mass) tells you once pressure and temperature are fixed, the volume can't change.
Thank you for your reply! I checked again Euler's equation writes U=-PV+TS+##\mu## N, previously I missed the chemical potential term, it turns out that in the case of free expansion of V->2V, although ##\Delta## (-PV)=0, while ##\Delta (TS)=nrT ln(2)##, the chemical potential decreases! ##\Delta (\mu N)= -nRT ln(2)##, exactly cancels out the## \Delta (TS) ##term such that the internal energy indeed remains unchanged after the free expansion.
 

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