Evaporation of Bourbon from a Wooden Barrel

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter potus77
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Evaporation
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the evaporation of bourbon and water from wooden barrels, known as the "angels share." Participants explore the factors influencing this process, including ambient temperature, relative humidity (RH), and the permeability of the barrel material. The conversation includes theoretical calculations and empirical observations related to the loss of liquid over time.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about calculating the loss of bourbon and water from a barrel, given specific environmental conditions.
  • Another participant questions whether the barrel is completely sealed, suggesting that permeability of the wood could allow for loss of alcohol.
  • A mathematical model is proposed for flow through a permeable cylindrical object, including variables such as permeability, viscosity, and pressure gradient, with an initial estimate of loss that is later deemed too high.
  • A participant shares historical context regarding the challenges of predicting evaporation from oak barrels, noting variable losses of liquid and suggesting that temperature and RH might influence the composition of the lost liquid.
  • Discussion includes the vapor pressure of water and its implications for calculating pressure gradients, with acknowledgment that permeability may differ for water and ethanol.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the observation that water may leave the barrel faster than ethanol, questioning the expected behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses and calculations regarding evaporation, but no consensus is reached on the specific mechanisms or outcomes. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the factors influencing the evaporation process.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the permeability of wood, the variability of environmental conditions, and the lack of definitive measurements for the pressure gradients involved. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of the evaporation process from the barrels.

potus77
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
How would i go about calculating the loss of Bourbon 120 proof 60% ALC/VOL and/or Water from a wooden barrel stored in a warehouse, knowing the ambient temp, RH% and Dew Point, Know as the angels share. per period of time?
 
Science news on Phys.org
Is the wooden storage barrel sealed? Completely closed? If yes, then none lost to the Angels. But, if the wood has some permeability, which would allow alcohol to pass through, then yes, you would lose some. How to calculate that amount? Sorry, but I've no idea how.
 
Flow through the wall of a permeable cylindrical object can be modeled as:

v_{R}=\frac{K}{\mu} \frac{\Delta p}{d}

Where v is the velocity of the radial flow (i.e. out of the container), K the permeability, μ the viscosity of the fluid, and Δp/d the pressure gradient between inside and outside. Using the vapor pressure of EtOH (6 kPa), a wall thickness of 2 cm, and a permeability of wood of 0.1 milliDarcy (a crude estimate based on http://eng.med.wanfangdata.com.cn/PaperDetail.aspx?qkid=zwxb&qcode=zwxb200102002 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darcy). Then, convert v to a volume flow Q = v* area of barrel- I estimated 0.3 liters/hr, which is *way* too high.

Alternatively, you can use the measured losses as a measurement of K. A barrel holds about 180 liters and is aged for (say) 7 years- a 30% loss is 9*10^-4 liters/hr, so the permeability is likely closer to 0.1 microDarcy.
 
Thanks,

how to predict evaporation from white oak bourbon and scotch barrels has been a century old challenge. we put 53 gallons of 124 proof spirits in a oak barrel place it in a warehouse for 4-8 years. when the barrel is emptied 22% of the liquid is gone. there are times when the volume of water is lower and the alcohol is higher, other times the water is higher and the alcohol is lower. This seems to be related to the temperature and RH% in the warehouse. The alcohol or water wicks through the wood of the barrel. I was wondering what was happening. Some say it is Vapor Pressure Deficit between the liquid in the barrel and the ambient temperature and RH% anyone have a guess? how can we measure the temperature, RH% or dew point of the warehouse and predict what will leave the barrels??
 
The vapor pressure of water at 25C is about 3 kPa, so by measuring the RH with (say) a hygrometer, you can calculate the pressure gradient for water. The permeability for water through the barrel is assuredly different than ethanol, and I'm sure there considerable variation in the permeability from barrel to barrel for both.

I'm curious about water leaving faster than ethanol- that's not what I would expect. Was there something unusual?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
19
Views
4K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
9K