Explaining Tensors in Special Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding tensors in the context of Special Relativity, specifically the differences between various tensor notations and their transformations under coordinate changes. Participants explore the physical meanings of tensors and their applications in relativity, touching on concepts from linear algebra and differential geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that the difference between the tensors \(A^{\alpha \beta}\), \(A_{\alpha \beta}\), and \(A^{\alpha}_{\beta}\) lies in how these components transform under coordinate transformations.
  • One participant notes that understanding the distinction between covariant and contravariant vectors is essential for grasping tensor transformations.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the physical meaning of tensors with multiple indices, questioning why certain tensors, like the Lorentz transformation matrix \(L^{\alpha \beta}\), do not seem to have the same physical significance as the Minkowski metric \(g^{\beta \mu}\).
  • A participant emphasizes that the Lorentz transformation is a coordinate transformation that acts on tensor indices and discusses the relationship between the number of indices a field has and its spin.
  • Some participants suggest that a deeper understanding of differential geometry may be necessary to fully grasp the concepts in relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the physical interpretations of tensors and their transformations. There is no consensus on the necessity of studying differential geometry for a complete understanding of relativity, as opinions differ on the foundational knowledge required.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention limitations in their understanding of differential geometry and its relevance to the discussion of tensors in relativity. Some express a reliance on engineering linear algebra concepts, which may not fully encompass the mathematical framework needed for a comprehensive grasp of the topic.

Wminus
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Hey! I'm reading Special Relativity right now and I am stuck trying to understand tensors. Can you kind people please explain to me the difference between the following 3 tensors?

$$A^{\alpha \beta}$$ $$A_{\alpha \beta}$$ $$A^{\alpha}_{\beta}$$
 
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The difference lies in how these tensor components transform under coordinate transformations. In relativity you always have a metric to relate different types of tensor components to the underlying meaning of co- and contravariant properties often gets lost. A good first step to understanding the difference is to focus on understanding the difference between covariant and contravariant vectors.
 
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There's a good introduction at http://preposterousuniverse.com/grnotes/grtinypdf.pdf
 
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Orodruin said:
The difference lies in how these tensor components transform under coordinate transformations. In relativity you always have a metric to relate different types of tensor components to the underlying meaning of co- and contravariant properties often gets lost. A good first step to understanding the difference is to focus on understanding the difference between covariant and contravariant vectors.

I understand how to do the component transforms ("up/down transforms"), and I understand the concept of dual spaces/one forms (same as bra's and ket's). What I do not understand is the physical meaning of all the tensors where ##(n,p)## where the ##n## and ##p## are not equal to 1. I mean, ##L^{\alpha}_{\beta}## is the good old boost matrix that acts on 4-vectors, but what the heck is a ##L^{\alpha \beta} = L^{\alpha}_{\mu} g^{\beta \mu} ## ?

And also how come ##g^{\beta \mu}## is a physical matrix (it's the minkowski metric matrix which you use to find the scalar product of two 4-vectors), while ##L^{\alpha \beta}## isn't ?! The two tensors are of the same rank, after all!

Please keep in mind that I only know and think in terms of engineering linear algebra (i.e. vector/hilbert spaces, linear independence and matrices). I've never studied differential geometry! Do I need to pick up a book in that to get a real understanding of Einstein's two theories of relativity?
 
L, the Lorentz transformation, is defined as a coordinate transformation. As such it has two indices. This coordinate transformation then acts on an index of a tensor.

Let's look upon it from a fundamental perspective. As a theoretical physicist you look at the fundamental building blocks of nature. These building blocks are particles and the forces between them, also mediated by particles. So it's particles everywhere. These particles are described by fields. These fields can be described by how their components change when you change your perspective as an observer. Think as an analogy about geometrical objects like points, lines, cubes, etc in 3-space. You could say that the more complicated the field transforms, the more indices it gets. Maybe you know about the concept of spin; well, there is a relation between the number and nature of indices a field has, and the amount of spin you can assign to it. Fields without indices are called scalars and have spin 0, fields with one index are called vectors and have spin 1, and on top of that you have half-integer spin fields, which have different kind of indices (called spinor indices). In the end it is just a matter of labeling.

Maybe it also helps to look at the physical interpretation of the energy-momentum tensor, a tensor with two indices; it describes the energy- and momentum flux of spacetime surfaces.

A Lorentz transformation with two upper indices is just a mathematical expression of the matrix product of a Lorentz transformation with a metric. That's (as I understand) all there is to it.
 
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Wminus said:
while LαβLαβL^{\alpha \beta} isn't ?! The two tensors are of the same rank, after all!

The Lorentz transformation matrix is not a tensor. It happens to be written using similar index notation, but that doesn't mean it's the same kind of thing.

Wminus said:
I've never studied differential geometry! Do I need to pick up a book in that to get a real understanding of Einstein's two theories of relativity?

Sean Carroll's online lecture notes give a good introduction to differential geometry as it is used in relativity.

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9712019
 
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