Exploring Relativistic Motion: Insights from Special and General Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the differences between rotational and linear motion, particularly in the context of special and general relativity. Participants examine unique insights, implications of the equivalence principle, and effects such as frame-dragging and gravitomagnetism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that linear acceleration leads to increasing speed in a fixed direction, while rotational acceleration changes direction without changing speed, suggesting a fundamental difference.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of gravitomagnetism, relating it to rotating bodies and suggesting it parallels the relationship between magnetism and electrostatic fields.
  • A different perspective highlights that in a rotating disc, the material stretches to compensate for Lorentz contraction, indicating complexities in restoring original lengths in co-moving inertial frames.
  • One participant questions the differences in light behavior under rotational versus linear frame-dragging, referencing the Lense-Thirring effect and its implications for light speed relative to rotation.
  • Another participant mentions Brian Greene's visualizations of motion through spacetime, noting distinctions between fixed velocity, linear acceleration, and rotational motion, but expresses uncertainty about the fundamental insights this provides.
  • A later reply challenges the corkscrew analogy for rotational motion by referencing Thomas precession, suggesting a need for further clarification or alternative perspectives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the implications of rotational versus linear motion, with no consensus reached on the fundamental differences or insights derived from relativity. Multiple competing views remain regarding the effects of frame-dragging and the nature of motion through spacetime.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexities involved in understanding the effects of rotation and linear motion in relativity, including unresolved questions about experimental verification and the implications of different theoretical models.

Naty1
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I've always found rotational motion a little weird...

The "odd" result is that a while a fixed linear force causes steady acceleration and an ever increasing speed with a fixed direction a fixed rotational force causes steady acceleration via a steady change in direction while speed remains constant. And that's because acceleration and velocity vectors are coincident in linear motion and offset 90 degrees with uniform rotational motion.

But as one "silly example" of how they may be different, linear acceleration doesn't make us dizzy and that might hint at some fundamental physical difference.

Are their any other, maybe unique, insights from special or general relativity regarding these two "types" of motion? For example the "equivalence principle" would seem to break down with rotational motion...since I think we'd sure know the difference versus gravitational effects.
 
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Naty1 said:
I've always found rotational motion a little weird...

The "odd" result is that a while a fixed linear force causes steady acceleration and an ever increasing speed with a fixed direction a fixed rotational force causes steady acceleration via a steady change in direction while speed remains constant. And that's because acceleration and velocity vectors are coincident in linear motion and offset 90 degrees with uniform rotational motion.

But as one "silly example" of how they may be different, linear acceleration doesn't make us dizzy and that might hint at some fundamental physical difference.

Are their any other, maybe unique, insights from special or general relativity regarding these two "types" of motion? For example the "equivalence principle" would seem to break down with rotational motion...since I think we'd sure know the difference versus gravitational effects.

The gravitational effects of a moving or rotating body include "gravitomagnetism", which is equivalent to a rotating frame of reference and "frame-dragging" effects. "Gravitomagnetism" is related to the ordinary gravitational acceleration field in the same way that magnetism is related to electrostatic fields. In gravity, this is normally an extremely tiny effect, but Gravity Probe B has been attempting to measure it experimentally.
 
Here's another insight from Fredrik in another thread:

So why did I say "if the acceleration is linear..."? Because there are situations where it just isn't possible for each microscopic piece to restore itself to its original length in co-moving inertial frames. The simplest example is a rotating disc. When you give a wheel a spin, the material will be forcefully stretched everywhere along the circumference by a factor that exactly compensates for the Lorentz contraction. So in this case we are performing additional work, not to cause the Lorentz contraction but to make sure that lengths remain the same when they do get Lorentz contracted.
 
I am unsure of any possible differences between rotational and linear frame dragging, but they might affect light somewhat differently:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_dragging)

Rotational frame-dragging (the Lense-Thirring effect) appears in the general principle of relativity and similar theories in the vicinity of rotating massive objects. Under the Lense-Thirring effect, the frame of reference in which a clock ticks the fastest is one which is rotating around the object as viewed by a distant observer. This also means that light traveling in the direction of rotation of the object will move around the object faster than light moving against the rotation as seen by a distant observer. It is now the best-known effect, partly thanks to the Gravity Probe B experiment.

Linear frame dragging is the similarly inevitable result of the general principle of relativity, applied to linear momentum. Although it arguably has equal theoretical legitimacy to the "rotational" effect, the difficulty of obtaining an experimental verification of the effect means that it receives much less discussion and is often omitted from articles on frame-dragging (but see Einstein, 1921).[4]
 
Another aspect of rotational versus linear motion in relativity I should have remembered and posted:
Brian Greene's explanation and diagrams showing how we move through spacetime at "c" has interesting visual distinctions between fixed velocity, and linear and rotational acceleration:
Constant velocity is straight line in space time, acceleration is a curve and rotational motion a fixed diameter corkscrew...but I can't see a fundamental insights this provides...maybe more imagination is required! It also provides a rather intuitive insight into why our universe is limited to "c".
 

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