Extradition of Abu Hamza - is it even a news story in the USA

[Ken Natton]

It is a news story that has been grumbling on for over a decade here in the UK, but as I write this, Abu Hamza is in the air, on his way to stand trial on terrorism charges in the USA. Are you aware of this particular bundle of malevolence in the USA? Has there been any mention at all in the news in the USA that extradition proceedings are finally over and he is coming to be a guest of the US Justice Department? There is no doubt that it is deeply gratifying to finally see him removed from the British soil he did not deserve to occupy, but neither would I wish him on the US. Supposedly his health is deteriorating fast and maybe, just maybe, he is one hurricane that has now lost its power. But I can't escape the feeling that he hasn't yet caused his last piece of trouble...

 

[phinds]

Yes, he's in the news here. One can only wish that he were being extradited to Texas.

 

[Astronuc]

It is a news story that has been grumbling on for over a decade here in the UK, but as I write this, Abu Hamza is in the air, on his way to stand trial on terrorism charges in the USA. Are you aware of this particular bundle of malevolence in the USA? Has there been any mention at all in the news in the USA that extradition proceedings are finally over and he is coming to be a guest of the US Justice Department? There is no doubt that it is deeply gratifying to finally see him removed from the British soil he did not deserve to occupy, but neither would I wish him on the US. Supposedly his health is deteriorating fast and maybe, just maybe, he is one hurricane that has now lost its power. But I can't escape the feeling that he hasn't yet caused his last piece of trouble...

It was mentioned in the news last week. This week, the news focused on the debate between presidential candidates, and today, on the unemployment rate.

His loss of appeal and the UK court ruling concerning his extradition to the US is in the news today.
http://news.yahoo.com/uk-court-rules-abu-hamza-extradited-us-135945262.html

 

[Ken Natton]

One can only wish that he were being extradited to Texas.

There are more than a few British people expressing their satisfaction in their expectation that he will suffer much harsher realities in US custody than he did in British custody. I don't know if you are untroubled by that perception, but those people seem to be missing the point that such a concern was precisely the cause of the long delay for approval from the European courts, and extradition has finally been approved on the basis that it will not be the case. He was extradited to suffer only justice.

 

[phinds]

There are more than a few British people expressing their satisfaction in their expectation that he will suffer much harsher realities in US custody than he did in British custody. I don't know if you are untroubled by that perception ...

I am greatly troubled by that perception. I think it is a shame that England or any other country should be so namby-pamby with such scum.

He was extradited to suffer only justice.

Yeah, and I'd be very pleased to have him suffer some down home justice in Texas.

 

[rootX]

I find it interesting that by wikipedia he was charged for:

In each, Egyptian-born Hamza is accused of soliciting others to murder non-believers at public meetings. Several of the charges specify that Hamza encouraged others to murder Jews.

He also faces four charges under the Public Order Act 1986 of "using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior with the intention of stirring up racial hatred."

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/06/britain.hamza/index.html

Would he been charged in US for "using threatening, abusive or insulting words or behavior with the intention of stirring up racial hatred"?

As to the OP, I find it waste of money and time extraditing Abu Hamza.

 

[rootX]

I am greatly troubled by that perception. I think it is a shame that England or any other country should be so namby-pamby with such scum.



Yeah, and I'd be very pleased to have him suffer some down home justice in Texas.

I need to understand for what you want him to be charged in Texas? I don't find things like "A further charge says Hamza was in possession of eight video and audio recordings, which he intended to distribute to stir up racial hatred." sufficient enough for him to put to trial in US.

There have been US individuals who have caused more than enough damage with their videos.

Reading the bbc article, I find "relating to hostage taking" a valid charge but "calling for holy war in Afghanistan" just seems not strong enough.

 

[phinds]

I don't know what he could/would/will be charged with, but he is inciting murder of innocent people and for me that's enough to want to take him out behind the barn and shoot him.

 

[rootX]

I don't know what he could/would/will be charged with, but he is inciting murder of innocent people and for me that's enough to want to take him out behind the barn and shoot him.

For me, that's no different than what Nakoula Basseley Nakoula (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19692971) did recently.

I am also not aware about the charges he will face and what kind of charges are considered serious in the US. But, I believe hate-speech is considered more seriously in UK than the US.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I am greatly troubled by that perception. I think it is a shame that England or any other country should be so namby-pamby with such scum.

Human rights have value because they are universal, not otherwise. Also IMO if you class Abu Hamza as scum worthy of execution there must be a hell of a lot of people in the world you think deserve death. I'm not defending him in anyway, I think he is despicable to, but I'm proud that we don't have the attitude that he does that life is something we should glibly end.

 

[phinds]

... if you class Abu Hamza as scum worthy of execution there must be a hell of a lot of people in the world you think deserve death ...

Yes, there are, sadly, a lot of people in the world who either kill, or cause the killing of, innocent people, and yes, I DO think they deserve death.

Actually, I don't really care if they are alive or dead, what I really want is that they be totally and completely removed from society AND I don't want to pay their upkeep in prison. In practical terms, I can't see any way to do this other than execution.

 

[AlephZero]

I'm not clear to me why the US wants him at all, except for steet theater. He was already convicted of different offences in the UK and safely locked up in prison for them.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I don't want to pay their upkeep in prison. In practical terms, I can't see any way to do this other than execution.

Execution actually costs more than life imprisonment because of the long process required before capital punishment is carried out.

 

[Ken Natton]

...I don't want to pay their upkeep in prison.

Execution actually costs more than life imprisonment because of the long process required before capital punishment is carried out.

I know you know this Ryan, but it is worth making the point that for both the UK and the US, dealing with Abu Hamza just is not a matter of the costs. It is a question of negotiating a path through the moral minefield, hoping one day to arrive at the promised land of universal acceptance, tolerance and understanding. The seeming unlikeliness of ever getting there is no justification for giving up on the endeavour.