F= - mg - kv ? (forces of gravity and friction on a mass)

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter One human
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Friction Gravity Mass
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation F = -mg - kv, which represents the forces acting on an object due to gravity and friction (air resistance). Participants explore the implications of the negative signs in the equation and seek clarification on the directionality of the forces involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the equation, questioning why both forces appear to be in the same direction and whether kv should be positive.
  • Another participant explains that the negative sign for mg indicates that the positive direction is up, making air resistance (kv) act downward when the object moves upward.
  • A different participant emphasizes that the negative sign in kv indicates that the force of air resistance always opposes the direction of velocity, regardless of whether velocity is positive or negative.
  • One participant suggests using vector notation to clarify the equation, indicating that the equation represents the z component of a vector equation involving forces.
  • A participant provides an example of a car experiencing air resistance, reinforcing the concept that the force of air resistance is negative relative to the direction of motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the interpretation of the negative signs in the equation, but there is ongoing discussion about the intuitive understanding of the forces involved. No consensus is reached on the initial confusion expressed by the student.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the positive direction being up and the nature of velocity in relation to force direction. There are also references to vector notation that may not be fully resolved in the context of the initial question.

Who May Find This Useful

Students studying mechanics, particularly those grappling with concepts of forces, directionality, and air resistance in physics.

One human
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
TL;DR
A simple question.
Hi I'm just a student so this:
F = - mg - kv
(Being kv friction) doesn't sound intuitive. Looks like both are going in the same direction... I just don't get it. But that's what my book says (Symon mechanics) and my classmates are also using "-"kv .

Can someone explain me please? Shouldn't "kv" be positive ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The -mg part suggests that this is an object moving straight up/down close to the surface of the Earth (or another planet with atmosphere). It also suggests that positive direction is up. Then if the object is moving up, the air resistance force should be down, i.e. negative. Moving up means v is positive, hence -kv is negative, directed down. You can work out the case where the object is moving down.

It should be very intuitive, -kv means that the force is proportional to v, but has oppsitive direction as v.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: SammyS, Lnewqban, PeroK and 1 other person
One needs to let v be any negative or positive value. Then the minus sign in F= -kv implies that the laminar wind force is always opposite the velocity.
Usually up is chosen as the the positive direction and the gravity force is then written as
F=-mg where g is taken to be a positive constant (but gravity is down). Notice this means that up velocities are positive and that down velocities negative.
A more definitive way to deal with all of this is to just use vector notation. The equation in question is then written as $$\vec F =m\vec g-k \vec v$$ where k and m are positive numbers. The initial equation is just the z component of this vector equation
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur, topsquark and malawi_glenn
For example, a car rolling with velocity v over a horizontal road experiences a force of air resistance F = -kv, where k is a positive constant.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: malawi_glenn
One human said:
Summary: A simple question.

Hi I'm just a student so this:
F = - mg - kv
(Being kv friction) doesn't sound intuitive. Looks like both are going in the same direction... I just don't get it. But that's what my book says (Symon mechanics) and my classmates are also using "-"kv .

Can someone explain me please? Shouldn't "kv" be positive ?
Hello @One human .

:welcome:
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
5K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
7K