F(x) differentiable at / near x=0?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiability of a function f(x) at x=0 and whether having a derivative at that point implies differentiability in an open interval around it. Participants explore examples and counterexamples related to this concept, particularly in the context of l'Hopital's Rule.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the existence of f'(0) guarantees differentiability in an interval around x=0, noting that others argue it does not.
  • Another participant suggests a function that is differentiable at only a single point, referencing a resource that illustrates such functions.
  • A specific example is proposed: f(x) = x² sin(1/x²) for x≠0, f(0) = 0, although some participants later clarify that this function's derivative is defined everywhere, not just at x=0.
  • A further suggestion involves constructing a new function g(x) based on f(x) that might serve as a counterexample, though one participant expresses reluctance to prove its differentiability at x=0.
  • Participants discuss the conditions under which l'Hopital's Rule can be applied, noting that even if f'(0) exists, the limit of f'(x) as x approaches 0 may not exist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether differentiability at x=0 implies differentiability in an interval around it. Multiple competing views and examples are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants acknowledge the complexity of finding appropriate counterexamples, indicating that the examples discussed may be pathological or not straightforward. There is also a distinction made between the existence of the derivative at a point and the behavior of the derivative in the vicinity of that point.

Redbelly98
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This came up in a recent discussion about l'Hopital's Rule.

Suppose f(x) has a derivative at x=0, that is f'(0) exists.
Is it necessarily true that f(x) is differentiable in some open interval containing x=0?
Others--who know calculus better than I--say no, f(x) is not necessarily differentiable for x≠0. So my question is, what is an example function where that is the case? That is,
f'(x) exists at x=0
f'(x) does not exist for x close to zero
I'm unable to think of an example, but am quite curious about this.
 
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Similar to constructing the example of a function which is continuous at only a single point, have a look at the http://www.math.tamu.edu/~tvogel/gallery/node4.html which is differentiable at only a single point. It just takes the fact that everywhere else, the tangent line has two disparate values, but at 0, all the tangent lines approach the same tangent line.
 
Thanks! By the way, one of the other people I was discussing this with came up with this example:

f(x) = x2 sin(1/x2) for x≠0,
f(0) = 0
 
I cannot think of one immediately as well, so probably the counterexample is pretty pathological.

Maybe you can take the f(x) from this webpage and define g(x) by
g(x) = -f(x) if x < 0
g(x) = f(x) if x > 0
g(0) = 0.

I don't really feel like proving that that's differentiable at x = 0 though :-p
It might be a good example, because around x = 0 it just looks like x |--> -x for all partial sums.

[edit]Lot of people posting while I was thinking about this :-p
Very nice example slider! And the other one from Dick RedBelly is even nicer because it is continuous everywhere :)[/edit]
 
Redbelly98 said:
Thanks! By the way, one of the other people I was discussing this with came up with this example:

f(x) = x2 sin(1/x2) for x≠0,
f(0) = 0

Hmm, this derivative is defined everywhere, though, not just at x=0. (Before I was looking at the second derivative at x=0. My bad. :D)
 
Last edited:
slider142 said:
Hmm, this derivative is defined everywhere, though, not just at x=0.

Aarrh, you're right. Hmmm.

The original discussion involved l'Hopital's Rule. Thinking about it some more, the actual conditions should be
f'(x) exists at x=0
lim[x→0] f'(x) does not exist​
That is, even though f'(0) exists, one cannot apply l'Hopital's Rule to problems involving f(x) that meets the above conditions.

slider, thanks for providing another example.
 

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