Factoring y^4+y^2+1: Other Ways to Approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the factorization of the polynomial $$y^4+y^2+1$$, exploring various methods and approaches to factor it. Participants share their techniques, insights, and questions regarding polynomial factorization, including the challenges associated with finding factors of higher degree polynomials.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose a regrouping method to factor $$y^4+y^2+1$$, suggesting that it can be expressed as $$(y^2 + 1 + y)(y^2 + 1 - y)$$.
  • Others argue that factoring is a "hard problem" and that a variety of techniques or "tricks" are often necessary to determine if a factorization exists.
  • A participant suggests that if the polynomial does factor, the coefficients of the factors must also be integers, leading to the conclusion that any factors must be quadratic.
  • Some participants explore the possibility of quadratic factors and derive conditions for the coefficients, ultimately arriving at the factorization $$(y^2 + y + 1)(y^2 - y + 1)$$.
  • One participant raises a question about the existence of quadratic factors for other polynomials, citing an example of a polynomial that cannot be factored using rational numbers.
  • Another participant discusses the roots of unity and how they relate to the factorization of polynomials like $$y^{2n} + y^n + 1$$, suggesting that specific roots can be identified as factors.
  • There is mention of a method involving multiplying by $$(x^2-1)$$ to facilitate the factorization of $$x^4+x^2+1$$, leading to a derived factorization.
  • A participant shares a general observation about the factorization of $$x^n - 1$$ and questions the applicability of certain techniques across different polynomials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods and insights into polynomial factorization, but there is no consensus on a single approach or solution. Multiple competing views and techniques are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best methods for different types of polynomials.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of polynomial factorization, particularly for higher degree polynomials, and the reliance on specific techniques that may not be universally applicable. There are also references to the limitations of rational factorization and the conditions under which certain roots can be identified.

Dethrone
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How do you factor $$y^4+y^2+1$$?
I know that if you regroup them like this:
$$(y^4+2y^2+1)-y^2$$, factoring becomes apparent:
$$(y^2 + 1 + y) (y^2 + 1 - y)$$

Is there any other way to factor this? It's just a pain to have to try out these "tricks" every time I try to factor something.
 
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Rido12 said:
How do you factor $$y^4+y^2+1$$?
I know that if you regroup them like this:
$$y^4+2y^2+1-y^2$$, factoring becomes apparent:
$$(y^2 + 1 + y) (y^2 + 1 - y)$$

Is there any other way to factor this? It's just a pain to have to try out these "tricks" every time I try to factor something.
Unfortunately, no, factoring is what as known as a "hard problem", because it is often no easy task to determine if a factorization even exists. So a "bag of tricks" is one's best friend.

Here, we catch a lucky break, the coefficients of $y^4 + y^2 + 1$ are all integers, which means that if it DOES factor, the coefficients of the factors will ALSO be integers. It is not hard to see we have no linear factors, since no integer choice for $y$ will make the polynomial 0.

So if we have any factors at all, they are quadratic factors, and we have two choices:

$y^4 + y^2 + 1 = (y^2 + ay - 1)(y^2 + by - 1)$, or:

$y^4 + y^2 + 1 = (y^2 + ay + 1)(y^2 + by + 1)$

Let's look at the first one. We have:

$(y^2 + ay - 1)(y^2 + by - 1) = y^4 + (a+b)y^3 + (ab - 2)y^2 - (a+b)y + 1$

Comparing this to $y^4 + y^2 + 1$, we see we must have:

$a+b = 0$
$ab = 3$

Thus $ab = -a^2 = 3$, which is impossible for an integer.

So we turn to the second one:

$(y^2 + ay + 1)(y^2 + by + 1) = y^4 + (a+b)y^3 + (ab + 2)y^2 + (a+b)y + 1$, which tells us:

$a+b = 0$
$ab = -1$

This, in turn, leads to $ab = -a^2 = -1$, so $a^2 = 1$, which has the solutions $a = \pm 1$. If we take $a = 1$, we get $b = -1$, and vice-versa, so both choices lead to the same factorization:

$y^4 + y^2 + 1 = (y^2 + y + 1)(y^2 - y + 1)$.

Sometimes, an analysis like this is all one can do, and the resulting system of equations can be challenging to solve (they are typically non-linear). This becomes increasingly true of polynomials of higher degree (like more than 6), which are quite difficult to factor.

Of course your "trick" is quicker than what I did. That's why such "short-cuts" continue to be useful.
 
Thanks so much for the insightful response, I have learned much from it!
Will there be a case where even quadratic factors don't exist, and we have to use higher order/degree factors?
 
Yes. For example, it is not possible to factor:

$x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x + 1$ using only rational numbers.
 
Thanks again!
Deveno said:
$x^6 + x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + x + 1$ using only rational numbers.
$$=-((-1)^{2/7}-x) ((-1)^{4/7}-x) (-x+(-1)^{5/7}-(-1)^{4/7}+(-1)^{3/7}-(-1)^{2/7}+(-1)^{1/7}-1) (x+(-1)^{1/7}) (x+(-1)^{3/7}) (x+(-1)^{5/7})$$ (Nod)

P.S: How can you factor that?
Not factoring, but I realize that the above expression can be written as: $$\frac{x^7-1}{x-1}$$
 
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Rido12 said:
Thanks again!

$$=-((-1)^{2/7}-x) ((-1)^{4/7}-x) (-x+(-1)^{5/7}-(-1)^{4/7}+(-1)^{3/7}-(-1)^{2/7}+(-1)^{1/7}-1) (x+(-1)^{1/7}) (x+(-1)^{3/7}) (x+(-1)^{5/7})$$ (Nod)

P.S: How can you factor that?
Not factoring, but I realize that the above expression can be written as: $$\frac{x^7-1}{x-1}$$

Yes, you can factor ANY polynomial if you "enlarge the field" enough.

But in your example, $1^{1/7}$ isn't "1", but a primitive 7-th root of unit:

$\cos\left(\dfrac{2\pi}{7}\right) + i\sin\left(\dfrac{2\pi}{7}\right)$

which isn't even a real number, but a complex one.
 
this is a very special case of $y^{2n} + y^n+ 1 $ where n is not multiple of 3 . In this case it is one 1. so w and $w^2$ are zeroes of the polynomial hence $y^2+y+1$ is a factor and by dividing we get the 2nd factor(note w is cube root of 1)
 
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How did you conclude that $w$ and $w^2$ are the roots?
 
Suppose that $\omega$ is a complex number such that:

$\omega^3 = 1$ and $\omega \neq 1$.

It follows that $(\omega^2)^3 = (\omega^3)^2 = 1^2 = 1$ as well.

So both $\omega,\omega^2$ are roots of $x^3 - 1$. Since 1 is a root as well, we have:

$x^3 - 1 = (x - 1)(x - \omega)(x -\omega^2)$, since a cubic can only have 3 roots at most.

Hence:

$(x - \omega)(x - \omega^2) = \dfrac{x^3 - 1}{x - 1} = x^2 + x + 1$.

Is there actually such a complex number? Yes, we may take:

$\omega = -\dfrac{1}{2} + i\dfrac{\sqrt{3}}{2}$

$=\cos\left(\dfrac{2\pi}{3}\right) + i\sin\left(\dfrac{2\pi}{3}\right)$

$= e^{2\pi i/3}$ (1/3-rd of the way around the unit circle in the complex plane).

kaliprasad's trick is another one you can "put in your bag".
 
  • #10
Thanks!
My bag is still quite empty, anymore useful factoring tricks? :D I know the one for $x^2+y^2$, where $2xy$ is a perfect square.
 
  • #11
Deveno said:
Here, we catch a lucky break, the coefficients of $y^4 + y^2 + 1$ are all integers, which means that if it DOES factor, the coefficients of the factors will ALSO be integers.

Erm... how would we factor $x^2-x-1$?
 
  • #12
Hello, Rido12!

Here is another method.
It too requires a "trick".

Factor $$x^4+x^2+1$$
Multiply by (x^2-1)

\begin{array}{ccc} (x^2-1)(x^4+x^2+1) &amp;=&amp; x^6 - 1\qquad\qquad\qquad\qquad\qquad\qquad\quad \\<br /> (x^2-1)(x^4+x^2+1) &amp;=&amp; (x^3-1)(x^3+1) \qquad\qquad\qquad\qquad\quad \\<br /> (x^2-1)(x^4+x^2+1) &amp;=&amp; (x-1)(x^2+x+1)(x+1)(x^2-x+1) \\<br /> (x^2-1)(x^4+x^2+1) &amp;=&amp; (x-1)(x+1)(x^2+x+1)(x^2-x+1) \\<br /> (x^2-1)(x^4+x^2+1) &amp;=&amp; (x^2-1)(x^2+x+1)(x^2-x+1) \qquad \end{array}Divide by (x^2-1)\!:

. . x^4 + x^2 + 1 \;=\;(x^2+x+1)(x^2-x+1)
 
  • #13
I also noticed something cool that I'd like to share, let's all add something interesting to this thread!

$$x^n -1 = (x-1)(\sum_{i=1}^{n}x^{n-i})$$

I'm really not sure if I notated it correctly, but:
$$x^2-1=(x-1)(x+1)$$
$$x^3-1=(x-1)(x^2+x+1)$$
$$x^4-1=(x-1)(x^3+x^2+x+1)$$
$$x^5-1=(x-1)(x^4+x^3+x^2+x+1)$$

Also, soroban, I do see how your trick works, but can it be generalized? Why $x^2-1$? Is it because it multiplies nicely to $x^6-1$?
 

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