Fair to say there are twice as many square matrices as rectangular?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison of the quantities of square matrices versus rectangular matrices, exploring whether there are "twice" as many square matrices as rectangular ones. Participants examine this question from various mathematical perspectives, including properties of matrices and cardinality, without reaching a consensus.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that for every rectangular matrix, at least two square matrices can be associated, proposing a relationship between the two types of matrices.
  • Another participant points out that every square matrix is also a rectangular matrix, complicating the comparison of their quantities.
  • A different perspective is introduced, stating that there are infinite matrices of both types, which challenges intuitive comparisons of their numbers.
  • One participant references the "Hilbert Hotel paradox" to argue against the idea that there are twice as many square matrices as rectangular matrices.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of specifying the coefficients used in matrix construction, noting that the cardinality of the coefficient set influences the number of rectangular matrices.
  • A suggestion is made to consider the comparison of invertible versus singular matrices as a related problem, inviting further exploration of the concept of "more" in different mathematical contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the quantities of square and rectangular matrices, with no consensus reached. Some argue for a specific relationship, while others highlight the complexities and infinite nature of the sets involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the definitions of "more" and the coefficients used in matrix construction, as well as the unresolved nature of the comparisons being made.

ssayani87
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Fair to say there are "twice" as many square matrices as rectangular?

Is it fair to say that there are at least twice as many square matrices as there are rectangular?

I was thinking something like this...

Let R be a rectangular matrix with m rows and n columns, and suppose either m < n or m > n. Then, we can associate two square matrices with R, namely RRt, and RtR, with Rt being R Transpose.

In other words, for every rectangular matrix there can be associated (at least) two square matrices.

Google brought up nothing, so I figured I would ask it here. It's not for homework or anything; just out of interest.
 
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Every square matrix IS a rectangular matrix.

If you consider rectangular matrices which are not square matrices only:
For every square matrix S, I can produce an infinite set of rectangular matrices by writing the columns of S once, twice, three times, ... next to each other (like "SSSS" - not a multiplication!).
No, that argument does not work.

There is an infinite amount of matrices, both for square matrices and rectangular matrices (note that the former are a proper subset of the latter). Therefore, intuitive ways to compare their number break down. As another example: There are as many even integers as there are integers.
 
Whoops, I suppose a better way to have phrased my question was "Are there twice as many matrices whose dimensions are the same as those whose dimensions are different," but that's a great answer, thanks!
 
Google for "Hilbert Hotel paradox". That should explain why the answer is "no".
 
To expand a bit on what I think Aleph_0 was getting at:
You should always specify the coefficients you are working with. If your coefficient set has cardinality |S| , then there will be |S|^(m+n) rectangular mxn matrices, since you can use any of the elements of S for any entry.

If you like that type of problem, try to answer if there are more invertible nxn matrices or more singular/non-invertible nxn matrices. And knock yourself out if you find it interesting by finding different choices for the meaning of "more" , in topology, measure, etc.
 

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