Famous argument against alien life

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Fermi paradox and arguments against the existence of extraterrestrial life. Participants explore the implications of the paradox, the assumptions underlying it, and various hypotheses regarding the potential for intelligent life beyond Earth.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants identify the Fermi paradox as the argument suggesting that if intelligent life were common, we would have encountered it by now.
  • Others argue that the paradox relies on the assumption that we have never been visited, which they consider circular logic.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of interstellar travel and whether alien civilizations would even want to make contact with humanity.
  • Some propose that advanced civilizations might self-destruct before achieving interstellar travel or that they could remain undetected due to their methods of communication.
  • Participants discuss the potential for advanced civilizations to exist for long periods, raising questions about their ability to survive and develop technology.
  • The concept of von Neumann machines is introduced, suggesting a hypothetical scenario where such machines could colonize the galaxy rapidly, challenging the assumptions of the Fermi paradox.
  • There is a discussion about the narrow timeframe of human history and the likelihood of alien visitation coinciding with it, as well as the possibility of classified or hoaxed encounters obscuring evidence of extraterrestrial life.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus reached on the validity of the Fermi paradox or the assumptions it entails. Multiple competing perspectives on the existence and nature of extraterrestrial life are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions and limitations in the arguments presented, including the feasibility of interstellar travel, the nature of alien civilizations, and the historical context of human civilization.

  • #31
philnow said:
...
Considering that Fermi's argument is based on the plethora possibilities for evolution of intelligent life, I really doubt that EVERY SINGLE such life would have destroyed itself.

Of course not, but what kind of civilization would they be if they don't? Intelligent life doesn't necessarily have to have a technological civilization. They don't even have to have a social order like ours. I would think that a social system like ants or bees would be more likely to survive but would they be technological?

Going back to my theorized ways of colonizing it's possible Earth was colonized like that by another civilization. Probably not because we haven't heard from them. There wouldn't be much point in doing that and not broadcasting EM like we do.

We evolved from predators which has a large effect on our social systems. If a civilization evolved from prey their social system would be different. They would probably be much more timid and paranoid and might not advertise their presence for fear of attracting predators. It is possible that type of civilization is more likely not to destroy themselves too. They might have been herd types which we aren't. A herd heritage might be better suited to survive. We weren't meant to be crowded and our society is suffering because of it. (and yes I've read Niven)
 
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  • #32
Chicken and the egg question. :)
 
  • #33
ideasrule said:
There are good reasons for something like a "Prime Directive". For one thing, perhaps the aliens are conducting a scientific mission and don't want to disturb the civilization they're studying. For another, maybe introducing advanced technology too soon has proven disastrous in the past. It's also possible that intelligent life is extremely common in the galaxy, and that Earth is uninteresting compared to the other worlds.


Chronos said:
Why would god-like beings bother to conceal their existence?
No argument that involves the motives of alien creatures can be used to in an attempt to refute their existence or visitation.
 

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