FAQ says refraction isn’t from absorption and emission

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of light interactions, specifically focusing on refraction, reflection, and other light phenomena in the context of quantum electrodynamics (QED) and condensed matter physics. Participants explore the mechanisms behind these effects and question the adequacy of QED in explaining them.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses surprise that several light effects are not explained by QED, despite its broad applicability as suggested by Feynman.
  • Questions are posed regarding the quantum-level mechanisms of light reflection by metals, the slowing of light in glass, visibility under ultraviolet light, and other unexplained light effects.
  • Another participant explains that the reflection of light by metals involves conduction electrons and plasmons, which interact with photons and retransmit them.
  • Clarification is provided that light does not actually slow down in glass; rather, the phase of light is shifted, leading to the perception of a delay.
  • It is noted that while humans cannot see UV light directly, they can observe its effects, such as fluorescence in certain materials.
  • A later reply suggests that the lack of explanation from QED regarding certain phenomena may be due to the collective behavior of materials involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of QED to explain various light phenomena, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in understanding the FAQ's explanations and the need for further exploration of the quantum mechanics involved in light interactions.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying quantum physics, condensed matter physics, or anyone curious about the fundamental interactions of light and matter.

thenewmans
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I find now that there are several effects on light that are not explained by QED. This surprises me since Feynman was so fond of saying that it covered nearly all the physics we experience. So I expected to get an explanation for reflection when I watched his lectures or read his book on QED.

Feynman also said QED is all about absorption and emission. Yet our FAQ dispels the myth of light slowing down in glass that way. That QED type interaction explains Raman Scattering. But that’s for a small fraction (.00001%) of the light that passes through.

Questions
1 – How does aluminum foil reflect light at the quantum level? (Or any other shiny metal.)
2 – How does glass slow down light at the quantum level? (The FAQ says what it’s not but not what it is.)
3 – Why can I see things under an ultraviolet light (black light)? (Maybe this one is QED.)
4 – What other light effects are not explained by QED. (I want to know everything!)
 
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thenewmans said:
I find now that there are several effects on light that are not explained by QED. This surprises me since Feynman was so fond of saying that it covered nearly all the physics we experience. So I expected to get an explanation for reflection when I watched his lectures or read his book on QED.

Feynman also said QED is all about absorption and emission. Yet our FAQ dispels the myth of light slowing down in glass that way. That QED type interaction explains Raman Scattering. But that’s for a small fraction (.00001%) of the light that passes through.

Questions
1 – How does aluminum foil reflect light at the quantum level? (Or any other shiny metal.)
2 – How does glass slow down light at the quantum level? (The FAQ says what it’s not but not what it is.)
3 – Why can I see things under an ultraviolet light (black light)? (Maybe this one is QED.)
4 – What other light effects are not explained by QED. (I want to know everything!)

I think you have several misunderstanding here.

1. The conduction electrons displays what are known as "plasmons". These interacts with the electric field of the photon but then retransmit it back with the same momentum, but shifted by pi. You learn this not from QED, but from Condensed Matter Physics.

2. I'm not sure which part of the FAQ you did not understand. It clearly explained the mechanism on why light appears to slow down. In actuality, it doesn't. The only reason why we say it does is because if you compare the phase of the light that doesn't pass through the glass versus the one that does, the one that does appears to have the phase shifted later. This is how we then say that the light took longer to travel through the same distance in glass.

3. You can't see UV light. Your eye does not have the sensitivity for that range. However, you can see the EFFECT that UV has on other object, and this include fluorescence of the object due to the impinging UV light. I do laser alignment of a UV laser, which would be impossible since I can't see it. But I can certainly detect its path if I use a piece of paper that fluoresces when the UV light hits it.

4. How do you know there is? In #1, the reason why you don't get such explanation out of QED is because it involves a material that has a collective behavior.

Zz.
 
This is great! Thanks, ZapperZ.

Can you tell me what topics to research to learn more about refraction from a quantum physics point of view?
 
Try the Feynman Lectures on Physics, vol 2, and start from the beginning of the book.
 

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