Farewell to Palestinian Leader Abu Ali Mustafa

  • Context: News 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Chen
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the assassination of Palestinian leader Abu Ali Mustafa and its implications for the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestinian groups. Participants explore the potential consequences of such actions on terrorism, retaliation, and the broader political landscape in the region.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the assassination will lead to increased attacks against Israel, suggesting it serves Israel's interests by justifying further military actions.
  • Others contend that killing a single individual will not significantly reduce terrorism, asserting that such actions are part of a larger cycle of violence.
  • There are claims that the assassination may create martyrs and perpetuate a cycle of retaliation, with participants noting the historical patterns of violence between the two sides.
  • Some participants express the view that the killing of leaders like Rantisi does not weaken terrorist organizations significantly, as they are easily replaceable.
  • There is a discussion about the moral implications of such killings, with contrasting views on whether they can be justified in the context of self-defense or retaliation.
  • Participants also debate the effectiveness of alternative strategies, such as capturing rather than killing key figures in the conflict.
  • Some assert that both sides justify their actions through a similar rationale of avenging deaths, leading to a cycle of violence.
  • Others challenge the notion that all casualties are equivalent, emphasizing the targeting of civilians by terrorist groups as morally indefensible.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the implications of the assassination, the nature of terrorism, and the effectiveness of violence as a strategy. Participants express differing opinions on the moral and practical aspects of retaliatory violence.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the conflict, noting that assumptions about the effectiveness of assassinations and the motivations behind violence are not universally accepted. The discussion reflects a range of perspectives on the historical and ongoing dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

  • #31
Chen said:
That's another thing... it is a lot more than "a few thugs". Your newspapers only report the big fish, like Yasin and Rantisi, but we kill a lot more terrorists every day, and that's only from the reports in the Israeli press (who knows how many more we kill without telling anyone).

Fine, they catch a lot of thugs. What does it matter if they catch 10 terrorists or 10,000 if another 10 or 10,000 replace them? This isn't a problem that can be attacked "one terrorist at a time"; The supply of terrorists is effectively unlimited.

I'm not sure this discussion is doing anything other than going in circles...perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
 
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  • #32
master_coda said:
Fine, they catch a lot of thugs. What does it matter if they catch 10 terrorists or 10,000 if another 10 or 10,000 replace them? This isn't a problem that can be attacked "one terrorist at a time"; The supply of terrorists is effectively unlimited.

I'm not sure this discussion is doing anything other than going in circles...perhaps we should just agree to disagree.
Well, let's look at it from the other direction then: You've told us how they should not deal with the problem, now tell us how Israel should deal with the problem.
 
  • #33
russ_watters said:
Well, let's look at it from the other direction then: You've told us how they should not deal with the problem, now tell us how Israel should deal with the problem.

Oh, I sure wish I had a great solution.

Well, I support the current policy of capturing/killing suicide bombers themselves. This does prevent actual bombings. By itself this isn't a solution though, since they'll just be followed by more bombers later on.

For terrorist leaders, a more observational strategy might work better. Of course, Israel is probably spying on them as much as they can already; but overt attacks again the leaders only makes that more difficult, since it tends to drive them further underground.

Israel could put a great deal of effort into supporting non-violent groups among the Palestinians; this is difficult though, since obviously for any aid they provide, at least some will end up in the hands of the terrorists. Plus aiding these groups may just get them labeled as collaborators, anyway...

Perhaps even just taking a consistent stand would help Israel. It's certainly difficult to understand how their policy works right now...they commit to a withdrawal and then all of a sudden go on the offensive...and then they turn around and commit to a withdrawal. I understand that they're just reacting to a dynamic situation, but it becomes difficult to take people seriously when they Israels policy changes every few weeks.

Perhaps the current situation is just too unpredictable to make a good plan to work out of; unless a drastic change in the social and political structure among the Israelis or Palestinians occurs, there may not be a policy that can end the cycle of retaliation. It's like an awful prisoners dilemma; both sides have to cooperate to come away with anything, but once one side demonstrates weakness, the other side will sense their advantage and try and bargain selfishly.
 
  • #34
master_coda said:
Oh, I sure wish I had a great solution.
I appreciate your honesty. Your suggestions aren't bad, but clearly this isn't an 'x won't work, they should do y' situation. No, using force isn't a perfect solution, but I do think its the best.
 
  • #35
Israel could put a great deal of effort into supporting non-violent groups among the Palestinians; this is difficult though, since obviously for any aid they provide, at least some will end up in the hands of the terrorists. Plus aiding these groups may just get them labeled as collaborators, anyway...
Looking at how many times neighboring Arab countries have tried to destroy Israel, it's quite clear that peace is not the option Arabs have in mind.



I think it's great that terrorist leaders are being taken out.
 
  • #36
ShawnD said:
Looking at how many times neighboring Arab countries have tried to destroy Israel, it's quite clear that peace is not the option Arabs have in mind.

That's a rather absurd generalization. Are you saying that there are no Arabs in the Middle East who don't want to destroy Israel?
 
  • #37
If there are any (which is possible), they are certainly a minority.
 

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